Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[TinselKoala]

Have you considered "resonance"?

Have you considered "reading" the existing Joule (Jule) Thief threads on this forum?

[ltseung888]

Have you considered "reading" the existing Joule (Jule) Thief threads on this forum?

I read some.  e.g. http://www.overunity.com/8564/new-jewel-thief-resonate-lcr-circuit-much-less-energy-draw/#.UKxG-Icsk1M


Some JT work better than others in specific situations.  The LEDs were brighter.  The no-battery time was longer.  The ring was louder.  The oscilloscope waveforms showed higher amplitude.  Is there a good way to measure and classify such?


I call some situations as "commercial resonance conditions"- meaning that commercial products can be built when tuned to such conditions.


BSI Energy Holdings Limited of Hong Kong was supposed to come out with an "Lead-out Energy Research Kit" that will help in the understanding of such resonance tuning.  I was hoping thousands would experiment and hit on many commercial resonance conditions.  I have not mastered a scientific technique to accurately predict or produce the commercial resonance conditions.  Much is trial and error.  The chance of hitting commercial resonance conditions is much higher with thousands of experimenters.


May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World.

[TinselKoala]

Lawrence, do you have a signal (function) generator? Using the function generator and the oscilloscope you can determine the resonant frequency of your JT coils, I think, without the rest of the circuit. Then you can compare the operating frequency of the running JT to the resonant freq you determined for the raw coils. It might prove interesting.....

As gadgetmall noted earlier, the main researchers in this thread (not me!! not yet!!) have explored the resonance problem and have learned a lot, and are using what they learned to make very efficient JTs, whether or not they are technically "in resonance" or even autoresonating. I think most of this information is in the threads, but I can appreciate that it's a long read....

[ltseung888]

Lawrence, do you have a signal (function) generator? Using the function generator and the oscilloscope you can determine the resonant frequency of your JT coils, I think, without the rest of the circuit. Then you can compare the operating frequency of the running JT to the resonant freq you determined for the raw coils. It might prove interesting.....

As gadgetmall noted earlier, the main researchers in this thread (not me!! not yet!!) have explored the resonance problem and have learned a lot, and are using what they learned to make very efficient JTs, whether or not they are technically "in resonance" or even autoresonating. I think most of this information is in the threads, but I can appreciate that it's a long read....

We do have signal generators.  My first FLEET did not use JT circuits at all.  I used a signal generator as the Input Source.  I shall ask my teams to look into this line of attack.  The JT thread is just too long with both good and bad information mixed.  I wish someone can extract the good information systematically.  Thanks for your suggestion.

[MileHigh]

The JT circuit is an oscillator where the primary function of the oscillator is to energize an inductor.  The inductor then discharges and makes one or 50 LEDs light up and the cycle starts all over again.

There is a fair amount of energy overhead to run the oscillator.  Perhaps up to 30% of the battery power is 'wasted' to run the oscillator.  The oscillator 'resonates' at it's natural operating frequency just like any other circuit that is designed to oscillate.  Beyond that there is no phenomenon of resonance at play in the JT circuit at all.

When the inductor discharges, perhaps up to 70% of the battery power becomes the useful output.  The useful output goes into whatever kind of load you want to connect across the the discharging inductor.  Since the discharge of an inductor is a current source by definition, the current decreases to zero but the voltage can be variable.  That's why a JT can light up 50 LEDs in series.  There is no 'magic' there, it's simply the way a discharging inductor works.

I am quite certain that a CMOS 555 with the right timing components driving an NPN transistor or a MOSFET to energize an inductor would outperform any JT circuit.  That's because the overhead to perform the oscillator function might be only 1% of the supplied battery power as opposed to 30% for the average JT.   However, this circuit would not be 'friendly' with respect to nearly dead batteries because it would need a higher minimum supply voltage to operate correctly.

The fascination with JT circuits is great and it's a great way to get familiar with electronics.  However, one should not forget that there is nothing special or 'magical' about it - it's just a circuit that energizes an inductor and then discharges the stored energy in the inductor through a load.  Because the discharging inductor acts like a current source and not as a voltage source, it can light up long strings of LEDs in series.

With a CMOS 555 timer setup, you would have the luxury of choosing your coil inductance and deciding exactly how much energy you want to store in the coil before the discharge.  You would also have complete control over the operating frequency.