Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[plengo]

Fausto:

Not extra energy.  When you first put voltage across an inductor no current flows.  Electrical work has to be done to get the current to flow through an inductor (voltage x current x time).  The current starts from zero amperes and slowly climbs.  Once the current is flowing and you put a high resistance load across the inductor then you get a back-EMF spike.  The energy in the back-EMF spike is identical to the work (voltage x current x time) that was expended by the battery to get the current flowing in the first place.

This is in contrast to a resistor where the current starts to flow the instant you put voltage across the resistor.  There is no "extra work" required to get the current to start flowing through the resistor.  Likewise, there is no back-EMF spike from a resistor.

MileHigh

so if I had a resistor and the flow is constant I get heat in exchange for the voltage x current x time I got that. But the inductor ALSO has the same resistance so it has to also create the same heat as the equivalent resistor and on top of that returns a BEMF for the same input time of power/energy.


What I see here is free energy as BEMF, it is not the same 100% input of energy but it is there, while the resistor does not have that same effect (at least in the same level).


How can this not make you think differently? An Inductor has the ability of providing what the resistor is not. This to me is free energy. The work done by an equivalent resister is the SAME as the work done by an inductor concerning the input power/energy.


Btw, on the BEMF we also have more resistive heat loss on the indcutor which goes in line with another experiment the shows more heat is generated over a resistor when pulsed many times.


The inductor is doing twice the work that a resistor does with the same input of power/energy.


Fausto.

[MileHigh]

Fausto:

You are not getting it.  What you are doing is showing your wishful thinking about inductors.  The truth is that every electronic circuit that you see discussed here is under unity.  I am not trying to stop anybody from experimenting with electronics.  You notice that when people get excited about an electronic circuit and think it might be over unity, they never attempt to explain where the over unity is produced.  What is implicit in all of this is that there is a belief system that says that coils "just might" get extra energy from the "environment."  Sterling Allen states that all the time and in a sense you are stating it now.

Let's review the concept of inductors using energy and power as the frame of reference.

Let's assume that the inductor has a resistance of 10 ohms.

Now, using a simple way of describing it and omitting some details for clarity:

1)  You apply voltage to the inductor and it takes some time for the current to reach the full current flow.   During this "start up" time the battery expends 10 Joules of energy to get the current flowing.  That means that 10 Joules of energy are stored in the magnetic field.

2)  While the inductor has the full current flow let's say it is dissipating 5 Watts of power continuously.  Of course we know that power is coming from the battery.

3)  When you stop supplying battery power and you put a high resistance across the terminals of the inductor you get a high-voltage back-EMF spike discharge of energy.  The amount of energy in the back-EMF spike is 10 Joules.

Do you get it?  The battery expends 10 Joules of energy to get the current flowing.  The 10 Joules of energy are stored in the magnetic field.  Then when the inductor discharges it discharges 10 Joules of energy.

In other words:  + 10 Joules - 10 Jules = ZERO.

i.e.; The energy in the back-EMF spike from a coil comes from the battery, and nowhere else.  Nor is it "radiant energy," nor is it "cold electricity."

The inductor is a temporary energy storage device.  It temporarily stores energy that was supplied by the battery and discharges it at a later time.  There is no such thing as "double usage" of energy for an inductor.

That is the reality Fausto.

MileHigh

[ltseung888]

Happy Thanksgiving to you all.  I think that we can settle the question of whether a JT can be overunity once for all.  Please refer to Nov 22a.zip in the following:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1516.msg26471#msg26471

If we believe in the formula:
Instantaneous Power = Instantaneous Voltage x Instantaneous Current
and that the Instantaneous Voltage value can be obtained from the DC Coupling of the Oscilloscope, then all we need to do is to examine the oscilloscope results.

The oscilloscope result for case 4 was obtained with the battery removed.  The capacitor was connected for some minutes.  The Output Voltage frequency increased from 1.4KHz when the battery was disconnected.  As the both the Input and Output Voltage dropped, the frequency increased.  At this state, the Output Power was negative and the numerical value of the COP was greater than 1.  This can be reproduced from the Lead-out Energy Research kit components from BSI.

God Bless.

[plengo]

Fausto:

You are not getting it.  What you are doing is showing your wishful thinking about inductors.  The truth is that every electronic circuit that you see discussed here is under unity.  I am not trying to stop anybody from experimenting with electronics.  You notice that when people get excited about an electronic circuit and think it might be over unity, they never attempt to explain where the over unity is produced.  What is implicit in all of this is that there is a belief system that says that coils "just might" get extra energy from the "environment."  Sterling Allen states that all the time and in a sense you are stating it now.

Let's review the concept of inductors using energy and power as the frame of reference.

Let's assume that the inductor has a resistance of 10 ohms.

Now, using a simple way of describing it and omitting some details for clarity:

1)  You apply voltage to the inductor and it takes some time for the current to reach the full current flow.   During this "start up" time the battery expends 10 Joules of energy to get the current flowing.  That means that 10 Joules of energy are stored in the magnetic field.

2)  While the inductor has the full current flow let's say it is dissipating 5 Watts of power continuously.  Of course we know that power is coming from the battery.

3)  When you stop supplying battery power and you put a high resistance across the terminals of the inductor you get a high-voltage back-EMF spike discharge of energy.  The amount of energy in the back-EMF spike is 10 Joules.

Do you get it?  The battery expends 10 Joules of energy to get the current flowing.  The 10 Joules of energy are stored in the magnetic field.  Then when the inductor discharges it discharges 10 Joules of energy.

In other words:  + 10 Joules - 10 Jules = ZERO.

i.e.; The energy in the back-EMF spike from a coil comes from the battery, and nowhere else.  Nor is it "radiant energy," nor is it "cold electricity."

The inductor is a temporary energy storage device.  It temporarily stores energy that was supplied by the battery and discharges it at a later time.  There is no such thing as "double usage" of energy for an inductor.

That is the reality Fausto.

MileHigh

MileHigh,


thank you again for the explanation and this time you said it yourself exactly what I said but you are still not seeing.


Let go slow: you said: energy goes from the battery to the inductor. Good. Inductor discharges that stored energy back to us (or another system, whatever). Good, all the same, what goes in, goes out.


Is that correct? Good, now, think again, battery give 10 watts of power in a second, so 10 joules. Great. Inductor discharges and gives back (minus losses) 10 joules or less back.


Now, this process heats up the resistive wire TWICE, not once like a regular resistor. Can you explain that? How come a resistor for the same 10 joules of input power ONLY heat once ? in others words a regular resistor will give you only an equivalent amount of 10 joules of heat, while the SAME resistance in a inductor will give you more than that in heat.


I would love to hear how you going to explain that out!


Wishful thinking is YOURs in thinking that you can deny that simple fact that power has nothing to do with the amount of magnetic energy stored or produced by an inductor.


Fausto.

[Neo-X]

Hmmm... I can imagine how a transformer gets overunity but in inductor im still double thinking. If the inductor really has more power in bemf or when the magnetic field is collapsing, then it will self oscillate when a capacitor is added because the extra energy from the bemf sustain the oscillation.