Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[hartiberlin]

When I tell you that the setup that Joe Newman demonstrated is of no significance ....

MileHigh

Again you misappropriated that Newman can run his Motor 3 to 10 times longer on the same charge
of the batteries !

So there is his overunity.

Just use accumulator packs, charge them up via solar energy, and put a normal 10 Watts DC motor on
it and then compare it to the big Newman motor.

Newman´s motor will run the same 10 Watts mechanical  load much longer than the standrad 10 Watts DC motor,
until the accumulator packs are discharged !


Regards, Stefan.

[hartiberlin]

P.S: Fast chopping of the input current and reusing the BackEMF of the coils always helps in motors to
reduce Lenz law.

So if you build a motor keep this mind.

Don´t use straight DC but a fast chopped DC input and reuse the BackEMF generated from the coils
to recharge your batteries.

For the same mechanical output power you need then to apply more voltage but you also will
get more BackEMF power this way, the higher the input voltage is.


Regards, Stefan.

[TinselKoala]

I let the top Universities worry about accuracy.

So you do not care if your results and reports are accurate? Astounding.

The Atten Scope has its limitations.  It also gives the top Universities an excuse to get involved.  They want to look good and helpful.  Any indication of overunity is acceptable to me.

Even if it's wrong, and due to your incorrect measurements??

A 6.x value is more than good enough for me.  Let the Universities worry about the values after the decimal point.

Lawrence, what are you thinking? YOU must be worried about whether your extraordinary claims are true or not, yes? You don't even care if you are accurate, you've already decided that you are right..... even though I've pointed out many things you have been doing wrong..... What are you thinking?

I shall do "indication" experiments.  Give room for others to shine.  You can shine too.  You probably can get access to better DSO than the Atten.  If you desire, I can send you one of the oscilloscope-test-ready boards.  In that way, you do not need to raise objections and guess what I may do wrong all the time.

Lawrence..... have you been reading my posts?

I have JTs sitting here in front of me that have the exact same circuit as your boards, and I have other units that FAR OUTPERFORM those, both in terms of instantaneous output power, and low voltage/current input requirements, thanks to groundloop and gadgetmall and the other builders who DO care about accuracy and correct measurements. You do not need to send me anything except what I've asked you for:
++The instruction/owner's manual for your scope.++
++The _exact_ circuit schematic you are using, ONE circuit, including the positioning of ALL measurement probe leads, ground wires, power supply connections etc.++

I will continue to help you.... I am interested in preventing you from falling on your face in public.... so once again I recommend strongly that you BACK OFF and be completely sure.... in a REAL SCIENTIFIC SENSE, not a faith sense.... that your claims are correct. If you can't even prove them to a willing Koala over the internet, you will be wasting your time and money sending off your boards to your sacred "top Universities". If you do not want to take my advice, that is of course up to you. In that case, I will continue to challenge you on your claims, without being willing to help you refine them. The onus of proof is ON YOU. We can work together in the interests of determining the real truth, or you can work alone..... but you will still need to find the truth, one way or the other.

I think you will find that "top Universities" have what they might call a "crackpot file". Are you a cracked pot, that leaks and is so brittle that it will shatter at the first challenge, or are you sound and strong, ringing like a bell with clarity and resonance when you are tested with the hammer? Into which file should you be placed, the "crackpot" file, or the file of continuing interest and cooperation? It's up to you..... and we all know to which pile you've been assigned in the past.

[plengo]

@MH


I asked a question and you are in purpose not answering. I think I know why, it is because with 5ma of power you are not going to explain his motor anymore. All the calculations you did for power is useless in this case.


You cannot explain that motor pumping water with 5ma. His coil has an huge inductance. You know that very well.


Now, for the sake of science, which is why I brought that example to this forum, I am trying to say something important here very relevant to Joule Thief.


The amount of input power to a coil has nothing to do with the amount of magnetic field created. Simple. You cannot change that.


This is extremely important to understand now how things are indeed working and how a coil can give you free energy.


I have no interest in convert you to believe in OU or anyone BUT we must look at the science with open eyes. Running a motor that big is indeed by sheer voltage, specially when he is using physical switching.


The battery are not giving amps of output, I really don't see how you or anyone will show the opposite. I small motor with a few hundred feet of wire, sure, but a huge motor with probably miles of wire, no.


The resistance alone on that motor size will be in hundreds of kilo ohms. Just turn on and off to the coil is a challenge all by itself, the arcing, the thousands of volts created.


You are ignoring those important facts which is CRUCIAL for us to understand truly what is going on in joule thief. The 1911 book explains at the university level what is going on, so don't read it, continue blind for all that cares.


For those that care, look into the induction laws and scale it to the size of Newman's motor (which Tesla obviously dealt with) and you will see what I am talking about.


With kilo ohms the maximum current you can get from those batteries would be what?  mili-amps. The magnetic field created is obviously huge since it is spinning his motor really fast and as he add voltage it accelerates tremendously while pumping water.


That one evidence alone shows that his motor is running in voltage and miserable amount of mili-amps.


Now, you might ignore my facts here presented, but I am sure others are reading and listening and you once for all without explanations about how this works.




If anyone has real evidence to explain that motor taking in consideration the physical dimensions, not just theoretical crap, calculate and see for yourself.

Fausto.

[MileHigh]

Fausto:

I won't be available much for a few days.  What evidence do you have for stating that the big Newman motor draws only milliamps?  If it's just what Joe claims then I need more evidence.   Are there any clips or links showing properly done measurements on one of these devices?

I answered your question, but I don't have the information for the number of turns, the diameter of the coil, the length of the coil.  That will give you the inductance.

The amount of input power to a coil has nothing to do with the amount of magnetic field created. Simple. You cannot change that.

For starters, the amount of magnetic field created has to do with the current flow through the coil and the number of turns.  You should know this.   After a certain point in working with electronics you have to be able to use the terms and concepts properly.

The amount of current through a coil and the number of turns and the permeability of the medium always determines the magnetic field created.  That's something that nobody can change.

This is extremely important to understand now how things are indeed working and how a coil can give you free energy.

No, a coil cannot give you free energy.  I challenged you a few postings ago to make a simple experiment that shows your claim but you ignored it.  How about a scientific experiment to back up your claim?

Now, you might ignore my facts here presented, but I am sure others are reading and listening and you once for all without explanations about how this works.

Supposing I make a guess that the motor is consuming 50 watts of power and doing about 10 watts worth of mechanical work.  That seems reasonable to me.  Now, if you actually made measurements of the power consumption of the motor and the work required to lift X litres of water per second up a vertical displacement of about one meter then we have some sort of a basis for discussion.

My assumption right now is that we have no electrical input power measurements for the Newman motor and no measurements of the flow rate of the water and the vertical displacement.

So, if it's true that we are just guessing then why should your guess that it's over unity be any more valid than my guess that it's under unity?

not just theoretical crap

The "theoretical crap" will answer every single question about the Newman motor as demonstrated.  With the right measuring equipment you could analyze the operation of the motor and understand exactly how it works and everything would make perfect sense, I assure you.  Unfortunately I don't think that Joe Newman is capable of doing that.

MileHigh