Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[ltseung888]

Lawrence,

How does Zhou "tune" the boards to pass?

At present, Mr. Zhou just passes the "failed boards" to his team/friends to play with and debug - they still light up the LEDs.  Some turned out to be bad toroid windings or just bad soldering/connections.  He found that to be cheaper and faster than spending his own time.  At the same time, he is training up his team.  I am passing the failed and the exceptional boards back to him so that he can re-examine them at his convenience.  At the beginning, he had to reject many boards.  Now, he seemed to have hit on a good board arrangement and using consistent machine wound toroids.  There are few rejections.  He is working with a factory to try to mass-produce consistent quality boards.

Please check Board 33 carefully.  You should get it within the next few days.  If you also find that the Average Output Power is greater than the Average Input Power on your scope, I shall ask Mr. Zhou to standardize on similar boards for this  product.  He is also working on the 2n3055 with much higher actual Average Output Power.  He is a qualified electronics engineer with proper license.

[ltseung888]

The waveform Mr. Zhou focused on.

It is the Input Waveform.  The bottom curve is the current.  If that has significant negative value (such as on Board 33), the board will show OU.  The Voltage is all positive.  Any negative current will mean negative power.  More negative current = more negative power.

This batch of boards from him all have such characteristics.  So do not worry if you cannot build an OU JT yourself.  Order from him and continue your research.....

@all testers:  Please look for and display this "Input Current" graph when you receive your boards.  It will give much information even before the full oscilloscope analysis...

[TinselKoala]

It seems to me like you've got a little problem, Lawrence. After all, the boards that show this strong "negative input power" reading still manage to deplete their batteries or capacitors in an ordinary time period. Don't they.

@.99: Yes, that's right-- what is the explanation for this difference in the two graphs?

[ltseung888]

 

It seems to me like you've got a little problem, Lawrence. After all, the boards that show this strong "negative input power" reading still manage to deplete their batteries or capacitors in an ordinary time period. Don't they.

@TK,

You are right.  You are one of the most respected researchers on this Forum.  I learned much from you – even the correct setting on the oscilloscope.

We are lucky this time to have a batch (approximately 100) of boards all showing strong "negative input power" and on further analysis; many also showed Average Output Power greater than Average Input Power.  We are excited but also realize that there is much more to do before a commercial product can be produced to benefit the World.

Instead of trying to do all the work ourselves, we decided to share this good fortune (or Divine Revelation) with the World.  Some giants such as Lasersaber, PhysicsProf, yourself etc. are already ahead of us in such research. 

I shall be delighted to send you one or two of these "negative input power" boards to you for testing, replication or improvement.  It will do the World much more good than us stockpiling them.  The strong negative input power (in a 2 stage set up) is already intellectually and experimentally challenging.  We need more top brains to crack the problem.

God Bless.

[poynt99]

@.99: Yes, that's right-- what is the explanation for this difference in the two graphs?

The frequency difference is most likely a result of component and/or component arrangement changes.

I suspect that the lower frequency version with the higher output voltage is due to the inductor charging with more energy (it has a higher inductance).

Therefore, I would also expect the battery or capacitor to deplete that much quicker as well in that particular build compared to the other.