Is joule thief circuit gets overunity?

[ltseung888]

@poynt99

Just one Zhou picture will answer a lot.  The Zhou technique is to use one 2-CH Oscilloscope for Input.  He adjusts the DC Power Supply and see if the bottom (current) curve crosses the zero axis.  If it crosses, he knows that he will get very low average Input Power values.

Since the average Output Power is always positive with reasonable values for such FLEET boards, a low average Input Power will give a high COP.  Thus he only focuses on the Input Current waveform to make his task easy.  He leaves the full DSO analysis to me.

[TinselKoala]

Lawrence, the proper comparison isn't the "average" value of the current trace. Rather, it is the AREA "under" the current trace. It is this area, when carried through the calculations, that defines the area under the instantaneous power curve, which translates to the ENERGY moving in your circuit.

To simplify, consider the input voltage to be a simple constant value. Then the instantaneous power curve shape is entirely determined by the shape of the current curve. Right?
Ok.
So, power is measured in Watts, and energy is measured in Joules. Energy is conserved. If you take the value of the Watts, and multiply that by the duration in Seconds, you arrive at an energy value in Watt-seconds == Joules. Hence, the _area_ under the instantaneous power function is the energy value in Joules, because it is the sum of all the instantaneous watts values multiplied by the instantaneous duration values. Do you recall your calculus?
Or, to put it another way, analytically, it is the integration wrt time of the instantaneous power function.

Since your power function shape is mostly determined by your current trace shape, you need to examine the _areas_ defined by that current trace. Is the area defined by the "positive" current wrt baseline smaller or larger than the area defined by the "negative" current wrt baseline? Recalling all the while that "negative" current indicated here, due to the probe inversion required by your circuit, means current flowing +normally+ out of the battery and dissipating power in the load.

The answer is clear to me.

[ltseung888]

Boards 110, 111 and 112 sowed on Fertile Soil?

The seeds went to people with access to DSOs and experts.    Some already accessed the overunity website.  Fertile soil?

They have much better eyesight, hearing, soldering skills etc.  They or their associates also have access to high end DSOs and electronics experts.  Calibration and Scope setup should not be a problem. 

More Divine Wine Servers?

[poynt99]

@poynt99

Just one Zhou picture will answer a lot.  The Zhou technique is to use one 2-CH Oscilloscope for Input.  He adjusts the DC Power Supply and see if the bottom (current) curve crosses the zero axis.  If it crosses, he knows that he will get very low average Input Power values.

Since the average Output Power is always positive with reasonable values for such FLEET boards, a low average Input Power will give a high COP.  Thus he only focuses on the Input Current waveform to make his task easy.  He leaves the full DSO analysis to me.

Lawrence, why do suppose the current wave form trace is both above and below thr 0 ref line?

Is it because of an offset in your scope? I wouldnt think that much offset would be possible. How about inductive reactance. Could that be playing a part. Let's assume for a moment that it is because current really is going in both directions. In your input current trace, wouldnt that indicate that the battery should last almost indefinitely since the average current is almost zero, or I assume could be tuned to appear as though it was zero?

[ltseung888]

 

Lawrence, why do suppose the current wave form trace is both above and below thr 0 ref line?

Is it because of an offset in your scope? I wouldnt think that much offset would be possible. How about inductive reactance. Could that be playing a part. Let's assume for a moment that it is because current really is going in both directions. In your input current trace, wouldnt that indicate that the battery should last almost indefinitely since the average current is almost zero, or I assume could be tuned to appear as though it was zero?

[/font]

@poynt99

The theoretical answer was in reply 416 on page 28.  Please read it carefully.  We can discuss the theoretical model more in the coming posts.    It explains clearly that with a "hidden" pulsing source, the current waveform trace can be both above and below the 0 reference line.

The current is really going in both directions as can be seen on the oscilloscope trace.  That is why I can demonstrate the recharging of a rechargeable AA battery for awhile – from 1.26V to 1.4V while lighting the LED.  However, the recharging can change to draining.  To maintain the recharging, I am doing the stupid manual procedure.  Watch the Battery Voltage – if it goes up, leave it alone.  If it goes down, take it out.  Let it rest and recharge another rechargeable battery.  Such a process works some of the time but no guarantee.....

In other words, I have not mastered the exact mechanism controlling the recharging or draining.  I sow seeds.  I observed the phenomena.  I shall let others do more research and find the answer.

It looks like more resources from Hong Kong and China are likely.