Probality of God

[Magluvin]

Cris

Not trying to come down on you here, so just take it as a thought comparison.

Do you treat people in your family that are believers the same as you do Tito? Do you announce their defeat when your questions are not answered to your requirements?

Hope you dont mind talking about that.

Mags

[Tito L. Oracion]

That's sad I actually expected more from you. I was going to get into an intellectual debate. you know you say but chris scholars have used data mining to show the bible is correct and I come back with its been proven with enough words data mining can show you anything and then you say what about numerology and so on and so forth.

But instead you conceded defeat.

By saying you must rely on faith, you are saying you have no basis for your belief.

The most disappointing thing about your failure to defend the bible. Is that I dont get to remind you that the jews wrote the old testament. According to you with the guidance of the holy spirit.

Why then do the Jews not believe in the new testament? Perhaps the new testament wasnt written with the guidance of the holy spirit?

Mores the shame.


This is the nature of a believer they do not even understand enough to question themselves.

I'm getting angry with this site!, Why i can't easily log-in!!!!!!!!!! 


You don't really get it do you?   
i conceded defeat?    how? why? when?    wow.
That is not even in my vocabulary    bwahahahahahhahaahhhahahahhahhahaha. lol


First i'm always having trouble with this site! 
Second i'm having difficulties in explaining  so many things in english   
Third i felt lazy when the question is just a repetition and i have to repeat the answer again and again. i think your not reading some previous post.


ok i will explain again: for the sake of your doubt 
First, You must know and believe that the Bible was inspired by the Holy spirit. and we can read that ok, and it was tested in time. and the logic is
I will not Believe if it is not from the bible because its the only book that was written inspired by God.


The jew are not believing because of jealosy, and they are hard headed like atheist. 


You know what: the wrong thing to you is, you are concluding me into something that i did not say. like "numerology", "defeat" etc!.


if we are not going to talk base from the bible then there is no reason to prolong this discussion. got that!




THE NATURE OF A BELIEVER IS THEY BELIEVE EVEN THEY DIDN'T SEE BUT WITH LOGIC AND HUMILITY   AND
THE NATURE OF ATHEIST IS THEY CAN'T BELIEVE IF NOT SEE IT FIRST AND THAT IS NOT GOOD TO GOD.


AND YOU REALLY CAN SENSE WHO REALLY ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. 




Simple: FAITH, JESUS IS THE WORD, AND DOER OF THE WORD, JESUS IS GOD AND SON OF GOD, BIBLE AND JESUS IS ONE. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN WE CAN TALK 

YOU know what it is your advantage cause i cannot quit express very good in english, but because Jesus is in me you don't have a chance even a single dust in your eye.


Here is your problem: YOU ARE LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE LIKE THOMAS.


JESUS SAID : BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE BUT DIDN'T SEE. ITS CONFLICT IS IT NOT.


GOD IS SPIRIT AND SHOULD WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT. IS THAT HARD TO BELIEVE? OR YOUR JUST HARD HEADED AND LACK OF FAITH. 


AND THEREFORE ALL OF YOUR EVIDENCE ARE NOTHING BUT A MESH. OWH WHAT A MESH 


ANOTHER ONE: IF YOU ARE PROCLAIMING THAT YOU WON IS LIKE A KING PUTTING ITS CROWN BY HIS SELF, WHAT A SHAME. LOL BWAHAHAHAHAHHA 

TITO L. ORACION

[CuriousChris]

Cris

Not trying to come down on you here, so just take it as a thought comparison.

Do you treat people in your family that are believers the same as you do Tito? Do you announce their defeat when your questions are not answered to your requirements?

Hope you dont mind talking about that.

Mags

Good question

I have to live with my family. So I tolerate some of their silliness. But when they say something particularly silly I call them out on it. Like my other brother the less reasonable one Who claims everything is a conspiracy.

He believes that 911 was a conspiracy. Whether it was or not is actually a moot point. The point is, he made these claims based on nothing other than that someone in his church told him it was, he then went and researched everything he could find to prove it was and ignored every alternate viewpoint. Of course it wasn't a conspiracy, but a lot of religious people want to believe it is (note the use of the word 'want') They want to beleive because it fosters an "us and them attitude" and an us and them attitude is a part of the control of the flock. Making someone believe the rest of the world is evil is a form of control. It is also incredibly evil in and of itself. You will see on this forum and others if someone makes that claim I stand up and say rubbish, like the ridiculous chemtrails claim, that is the product of sick minds.


Now to Tito. As a fellow believer you don't see his behaviour as bad. You ignore the smugness of his posts. The ridicule he tries to dish out. I know he's not very good at it. But he tries, poor thing. note his attempt at smug laughter.  I do try to refrain myself from responding in kind. believe it or not tito is getting the very refrained version.

Tito made a claim. A claim that the proof of God is the Bible. I called him out on that. I asked him to prove it.

He then went from being very wordy. Like you, to claiming my lack of faith is the reason I can't see the bible is the truth and therefore he is not speaking anymore. That is what is known as "throwing in the towel".


You sarcastically said my cup is full, I ignored it originally but now I'll say something.

Actually my cup is not anywhere near it. I have had a lot of experiences more than some but a lot less than others. I have a lot more to experience and learn. That is where I differ from you Tito and Bruce. I actually want to learn. I want to understand my mistakes and better myself. The clue to doing that is leaving your mind open to the truth and not hide behind being told what to believe by others. I operate on this forum for that reason. I trust science I do not trust scientists. So I seek out alternate viewpoints. Religion is one of those areas where I have learnt. The lesson was simple. Religion is fraught with deception.

The biggest deception of all. The centre of the falsehood of all religion. The reason why religion is as pervasive as it is today. What is that pervasive lie? It is the tenet that you fail religion, religion never fails you.

Think about that honestly for a while. It doesn't matter what the religion is. It doesn't matter how many lies are told. The religion has a simple answer to your questions and doubt. The answer is "obviously you do not have enough faith, therefore you can never understand. Tito said it, Bruce said it, you echoed it. It is simply the biggest lie of all and because you are not allowed and therefore don't question it, you don't see it for what it is. In essence it is the ultimate belittlement to a believer. "You are less than I because I have faith and you don't". Obviously I see the statement as exactly the opposite. To me it says "I am stupid enough to believe without question, You must question everything". to me its praise indeed, so thank you Tito.

Did you look at that list linked in my last post? Ask yourself. How many of the believers of those fraudulent 'pastors' accepted without doubt that they were being told the truth. How many believed that god spoke to them through their pastor. That their pastor was doing gods work? We now know that that is not true, they where common criminals. I often ask the question about the pope. If you are not aware the Pope can declare himself infallible. So does infallibility come before or after the declaration, how does he know he is infallible?

Ask yourself. Is your pastor telling you the truth in everything. Is he somehow better than those others. Are you somehow smarter than their followers? If you think you are then you are a fool. They were just like you. They are still just like you. Yet they could not tell the difference between the truth and a fraud.


I am also aware of your attempts at diversion.

[MileHigh]

Brain food time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRJrC500KPU&feature=plcp

[Magluvin]

Good question

I have to live with my family. So I tolerate some of their silliness. But when they say something particularly silly I call them out on it. Like my other brother the less reasonable one Who claims everything is a conspiracy.

He believes that 911 was a conspiracy. Whether it was or not is actually a moot point. The point is, he made these claims based on nothing other than that someone in his church told him it was, he then went and researched everything he could find to prove it was and ignored every alternate viewpoint. Of course it wasn't a conspiracy, but a lot of religious people want to believe it is (note the use of the word 'want') They want to beleive because it fosters an "us and them attitude" and an us and them attitude is a part of the control of the flock. Making someone believe the rest of the world is evil is a form of control. It is also incredibly evil in and of itself. You will see on this forum and others if someone makes that claim I stand up and say rubbish, like the ridiculous chemtrails claim, that is the product of sick minds.


Now to Tito. As a fellow believer you don't see his behaviour as bad. You ignore the smugness of his posts. The ridicule he tries to dish out. I know he's not very good at it. But he tries, poor thing. note his attempt at smug laughter.  I do try to refrain myself from responding in kind. believe it or not tito is getting the very refrained version.

Tito made a claim. A claim that the proof of God is the Bible. I called him out on that. I asked him to prove it.

He then went from being very wordy. Like you, to claiming my lack of faith is the reason I can't see the bible is the truth and therefore he is not speaking anymore. That is what is known as "throwing in the towel".


You sarcastically said my cup is full, I ignored it originally but now I'll say something.

Actually my cup is not anywhere near it. I have had a lot of experiences more than some but a lot less than others. I have a lot more to experience and learn. That is where I differ from you Tito and Bruce. I actually want to learn. I want to understand my mistakes and better myself. The clue to doing that is leaving your mind open to the truth and not hide behind being told what to believe by others. I operate on this forum for that reason. I trust science I do not trust scientists. So I seek out alternate viewpoints. Religion is one of those areas where I have learnt. The lesson was simple. Religion is fraught with deception.

The biggest deception of all. The centre of the falsehood of all religion. The reason why religion is as pervasive as it is today. What is that pervasive lie? It is the tenet that you fail religion, religion never fails you.

Think about that honestly for a while. It doesn't matter what the religion is. It doesn't matter how many lies are told. The religion has a simple answer to your questions and doubt. The answer is "obviously you do not have enough faith, therefore you can never understand. Tito said it, Bruce said it, you echoed it. It is simply the biggest lie of all and because you are not allowed and therefore don't question it, you don't see it for what it is. In essence it is the ultimate belittlement to a believer. "You are less than I because I have faith and you don't". Obviously I see the statement as exactly the opposite. To me it says "I am stupid enough to believe without question, You must question everything". to me its praise indeed, so thank you Tito.

Did you look at that list linked in my last post? Ask yourself. How many of the believers of those fraudulent 'pastors' accepted without doubt that they were being told the truth. How many believed that god spoke to them through their pastor. That their pastor was doing gods work? We now know that that is not true, they where common criminals. I often ask the question about the pope. If you are not aware the Pope can declare himself infallible. So does infallibility come before or after the declaration, how does he know he is infallible?

Ask yourself. Is your pastor telling you the truth in everything. Is he somehow better than those others. Are you somehow smarter than their followers? If you think you are then you are a fool. They were just like you. They are still just like you. Yet they could not tell the difference between the truth and a fraud.


I am also aware of your attempts at diversion.

Hey Chris

"Good question

I have to live with my family. So I tolerate some of their silliness. But when they say something particularly silly I call them out on it. Like my other brother the less reasonable one Who claims everything is a conspiracy.

He believes that 911 was a conspiracy. Whether it was or not is actually a moot point. The point is, he made these claims based on nothing other than that someone in his church told him it was, he then went and researched everything he could find to prove it was and ignored every alternate viewpoint. Of course it wasn't a conspiracy, but a lot of religious people want to believe it is (note the use of the word 'want') They want to beleive because it fosters an "us and them attitude" and an us and them attitude is a part of the control of the flock. Making someone believe the rest of the world is evil is a form of control. It is also incredibly evil in and of itself. You will see on this forum and others if someone makes that claim I stand up and say rubbish, like the ridiculous chemtrails claim, that is the product of sick minds."

Ok, Ill accept that answer. At least you are not hard core like Wilbert. ;] But then there is the conspiracy stuff....

I could tell you about Monsanto GMO corn, soy, wheat, cotton.  Gmo corn has pesticide built in. Bugs eat it and the walls of theirs stomach fall apart, quickly mind you, fast enough to kill the insect at minimal damage to the plant. But would you believe it?

Do you like corn?  Do you know what this gmo corn does to your stomach and intestines? It causes holes in the lining. When raw foods possibly enter these holes and that raw food enters the blood stream, the immune system attacks. This can cause allergic reactions to these foods. The more corn we eat, the faster this happens.

85% of corn produced in the US is GMO. Approved by the FDA, of which 9 people from Monsanto run. Fact check it.

Fact check that the Japanese said they will wait 20 years to see how the American children turn out.
Fact check how many countries reject GMO foods and production of.
Fact check what 'scientists' in France just published about GMO. That one is blowing it up big time. More awareness.

Fact check milk. The hormones, antibiotics and why, cows fed gmo corn.

Fact check that I Mags cant digest that milk, thus causing so much pressure that I got a hernia from not being able to go to the bathroom but more than every 3 days.

But I can drink organic milk. Hmm. Well, Im not allergic to 'milk'  But the FDA states that there is no significant difference between milk with hormones and organic, right on the container label.

Come on over for a week, Ill show you. ;]

Fact check that Monsanto is patenting plants and seeds. Our laws did not allow patenting 'life'. So what happened?

Now Monsanto 'somehow finds' farmers that just happen to have a patch of Monsantos soy plants growing 'next to the road' growing in the organic farmers field. Monsanto takes them to court and makes them burn their whole crop and seed, leaving them with nothing left to do but sell the farm.

In the 80s and 90s in Pa, before I came down here, farmers were paid to stop farming the land by the government, ever. Not even a new owner could grow on it. Why would that be?

Now all those farms are growing again my friends say. All GMO and biofuel crops. Thats why. All those farms were organic then.

But that is all just acceptable to you. Just business as usual. Good luck to you.

As for 911, there are 'many' strong questions that havnt been answered nor addressed acceptably.  If I go into that this page may overflow and cause this site to crash. ;] Thats a whole other thread here somewhere. ;]


"Now to Tito. As a fellow believer you don't see his behaviour as bad. You ignore the smugness of his posts. The ridicule he tries to dish out. I know he's not very good at it. But he tries, poor thing. note his attempt at smug laughter.  I do try to refrain myself from responding in kind. believe it or not tito is getting the very refrained version.

Tito made a claim. A claim that the proof of God is the Bible. I called him out on that. I asked him to prove it. "

Titos behavior is Tito who is communicating with others here for a while and took on some habits he learned here trying to fit in. The habits he has now are not the same as when he first started here. He and I have been here for about the same amount of time.

He does put forth his sense of humor. I accept it as such. He tries to make light of things with it.

If you know the Bible, then you know that asking for the proof you require is a loaded question. Just because you have not had the same 'experience' with God that he did, doesnt prove God does not exist. It is only your opinion.


"He then went from being very wordy. Like you, to claiming my lack of faith is the reason I can't see the bible is the truth and therefore he is not speaking anymore. That is what is known as "throwing in the towel". "

If you know the Bible from front to back then you know that walking away from a disbeliever is common once things go so far. If he chooses to come back for any reason it is his choice, as is yours. Even if we have faith and the Holy Spirit, etc, we are not perfected by it. We are better than we were. ;]

Ive seen many non believers and believers interpret the Bible differently. But i have also seen the ones that are consistent with their interpretation. The Bible says that we cant understand it properly without the Holy Spirit.

"You sarcastically said my cup is full, I ignored it originally but now I'll say something.

Actually my cup is not anywhere near it. I have had a lot of experiences more than some but a lot less than others. I have a lot more to experience and learn. That is where I differ from you Tito and Bruce. I actually want to learn. I want to understand my mistakes and better myself. The clue to doing that is leaving your mind open to the truth and not hide behind being told what to believe by others. I operate on this forum for that reason. I trust science I do not trust scientists. So I seek out alternate viewpoints. Religion is one of those areas where I have learnt. The lesson was simple. Religion is fraught with deception."

Would you agree that you are happy with whats in your cup so far when it comes to this subject, and dont want me to add to it? ;]

"Did you look at that list linked in my last post? Ask yourself. How many of the believers of those fraudulent 'pastors' accepted without doubt that they were being told the truth. How many believed that god spoke to them through their pastor. That their pastor was doing gods work? We now know that that is not true, they where common criminals. I often ask the question about the pope. If you are not aware the Pope can declare himself infallible. So does infallibility come before or after the declaration, how does he know he is infallible?

Ask yourself. Is your pastor telling you the truth in everything. Is he somehow better than those others. Are you somehow smarter than their followers? If you think you are then you are a fool. They were just like you. They are still just like you. Yet they could not tell the difference between the truth and a fraud."

Well sorry you had been involved with such a church. Not all are that way. The bible tells of false prophets. They use Gods word to get what they want. Yes I do know of these things. Corruption is everywhere. Possibly more bad than good considering religion. I cant say for sure, but things are getting worse in every facet of life. The Bible, written way back, describes these things very well. How could that be? ;]

Mags


Mags