9/11 truth movement topic

[Freezer]

9/11 truthers are much the same.  You point to an inconsistency and then milk it.  When one is explained, you focus on another.  So long as there exists one second of time frame unaccounted for and a single soul alive whose whereabouts cannot be vouched for (in other words, he was free to "plant evidence"), the conspiracy lives on.

"When one is explain you focus on another"

- Did I miss where you explained it?

Ok, you believe a passport fell out of a plane impacting the towers and surviving a fire, explosion, and a collapse of a building and also believe 3 titanium engines vaporized in that same type of fire and explosion.  I don't have anything more to say to a mentally blind person.  You are unable to attack my points and explain why it makes no sense, so you choose to label people as "truthers" who will grab at straws.  Sorry but the 9/11 explanation makes no sense, and you can stubbornly stick to it if you are so inclined.  And btw there's no winning or losing, we already lost.

[btester1]

We have identities of the hijackers and their links to Al Queda.  We have corroborating testimony from Al Queda members.  Al Queda has been all too happy to take credit for 9/11.  I could go on and on.
You want to debate that evidence, fine.  But to say there is no evidence is burying your head in the sand and ignoring any viewpoint but your own.

Just fits perfectly into place doesn't it?  Just because there's evidence of something, doesn't mean someone didn't plant that evidence.  Do you really believe they recovered a intact passport from the rubble of the world trade center collapse?

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10001.jpg
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10002.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

Yes, I believe it.  Anomalies happen and weird things survive plane wrecks.  Also, mistakes happen, as the articles you cite demonstrate.  The government has not been correct about everything, but that is a far cry from there existing a massive coverup.

I liken 9/11 truthers to Intelligent Design proponents.  The Intelligent Design proponents point to holes in the evolutionary theory and say, "see there, how can that happen naturally?  It can't; therefore an Intelligent Being designed it."  The theory survives only as long as the holes in the theory of evolution survive.  There is no independent evidence for Intelligent Design, only the absence of evidence from the other side.

9/11 truthers are much the same.  You point to an inconsistency and then milk it.  When one is explained, you focus on another.  So long as there exists one second of time frame unaccounted for and a single soul alive whose whereabouts cannot be vouched for (in other words, he was free to "plant evidence"), the conspiracy lives on.

The only way to win for you guys is to actually put forth positive evidence of your own.  And by positive, I do not mean anything that starts with "it could not have happened this way because . . ."  That is a dead end.  Too many people have already concluded that in fact the planes could have made that impact and the buildings could have fallen that way.  You need more.  You need to find evidence of the actual conspiracy - the people and correspondence and actual explosives used and the massive paper trail that has to be there somewhere.  Money was spent.  Where is the evidence of this?  Find this, and you win.

I'd like to hire you as a lumberjack. Your trees come down in one shot through the middle.
Your trees fall completely to the ground to dust on one swing at almost free fall speed.

You must have a good arm there. duh...

From 417 meters to 0 meters in 10 seconds =close free fall speed = impossible.
Free fall speed is 9.2 seconds. Just compute it.

I suggest you learn some high school physics and figure it out.
Same speed as if a ball dropping from that height.
All you need is high school physics. The equations are there.

Anyone who is questioning 9/11, only has to look at that simple fact.

You stated the following:
You need to find evidence of the actual conspiracy - the people and correspondence and actual explosives used and the massive paper trail that has to be there somewhere.  Money was spent.  Where is the evidence of this?  Find this, and you win.

No you do not need that. Do the physics. You don't need anything else. We don't need an official government explanation.

Also the mathematical probability of three buildings including building 7 coming down on the same day is just astronomical.
Winning the lottery a few times I think.

Either your misleading people or your not well schooled in physics and/or math.
I hope your not one those centcom bloggers out there. Trying to put doubts in people's minds.

[shruggedatlas]

9/11 truthers are much the same.  You point to an inconsistency and then milk it.  When one is explained, you focus on another.  So long as there exists one second of time frame unaccounted for and a single soul alive whose whereabouts cannot be vouched for (in other words, he was free to "plant evidence"), the conspiracy lives on.

"When one is explain you focus on another"

- Did I miss where you explained it?

Ok, you believe a passport fell out of a plane impacting the towers and surviving a fire, explosion, and a collapse of a building and also believe 3 titanium engines vaporized in that same type of fire and explosion.  I don't have anything more to say to a mentally blind person.  You are unable to attack my points and explain why it makes no sense, so you choose to label people as "truthers" who will grab at straws.  Sorry but the 9/11 explanation makes no sense, and you can stubbornly stick to it if you are so inclined.  And btw there's no winning or losing, we already lost.

OK, let's talk about the passport.  First of all, if you are using the evidence that it was found as basis for a conspiracy, we must first examine the question of why was it necessary.  What does the passport add to the story?  The government can already place Atta on the plane using other evidence.  Why would planting his, and only his passport at the crash site help?  If anything, it would just raise questions.  And, god forbid, if it is some kind of forgery, it can be examined and proved as a forgery.  Why have extra evidence, especially such controversial evidence, when there is no need?

Now, about the possibility of the passport surviving.  Other things were found too.  In February following, one passenger's Airline Plus Card was found near the remains of her hip.

Here is some evidence that was found from Flight 93:

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011230flight931230p3.asp

Now, I think I know your answer.  These incidents were all related to 9/11 and therefore all this evidence was faked.  Well, let's look at other plane crashes.  Cory Lidle's small plane also exploded on impact when it crashed into a New York building.  Mr.  Lidle's passport was found on the street below:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15223650/

Maybe when the plane ripped apart on impact things went flying?  Who knows?  Come up with something better, because paper documents have survived plane crashes before.  The paper just has to get away from the plane to evade the fireball, and there is time for this while the plane breaks up.

[shruggedatlas]

I'd like to hire you as a lumberjack. Your trees come down in one shot through the middle.
Your trees fall completely to the ground to dust on one swing at almost free fall speed.

You must have a good arm there. duh...

From 417 meters to 0 meters in 10 seconds =close free fall speed = impossible.
Free fall speed is 9.2 seconds. Just compute it.

I suggest you learn some high school physics and figure it out.
Same speed as if a ball dropping from that height.
All you need is high school physics. The equations are there.

Anyone who is questioning 9/11, only has to look at that simple fact.

You stated the following:
You need to find evidence of the actual conspiracy - the people and correspondence and actual explosives used and the massive paper trail that has to be there somewhere.  Money was spent.  Where is the evidence of this?  Find this, and you win.

No you do not need that. Do the physics. You don't need anything else. We don't need an official government explanation.

Also the mathematical probability of three buildings including building 7 coming down on the same day is just astronomical.
Winning the lottery a few times I think.

Either your misleading people or your not well schooled in physics and/or math.
I hope your not one those centcom bloggers out there. Trying to put doubts in people's minds.

It is far from accepted that the fall took 10 seconds.  But even if givem, I do not understand why the WTC cannot collapse in 10 seconds.  Floor 97 failed and everything above it pancaked down.  Each floor was smashed with so much impact from all the floors above, that the fall of the building approximated freefall.  So long as it does not exceed the 9.2 seconds or whatever, no law of physics is broken.  WE HAVE ALL THIS ON VIDEO, and it looks natural.

HOWEVER, even the conspiracy sites admit that the fall probably took 15 seconds for the North tower, maybe 17:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/freefall.html

"However, video evidence of the North Tower collapse suggests that it took close to 15 seconds for the destruction to reach the ground."

"The CNN video suggests that it takes about ten seconds for the bottom of the mushrooming dust cloud to reach the ground, and another seven or so for the top to reach the ground."

Regarding the South tower, it is a little hard to tell, but I am looking at the NBC video, and I can count at least 12 seconds, probably 14, while the tower is falling.  Hard to tell because of smoke, but definitely longer than 10.  Start from when tower leans over.  Click on NBC video link here:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/freefall.html

Can we move on to finding people "in on it" yet?  I really want to see that evidence.

[gaby de wilde]

Now, about the possibility

AHHH, shut up with your possibility BULLSHIT. We have the hard facts all documented down to the last detail. There is nothing interesting about your nonsense speculation. If you continue the speculation then in 2100 Oswald is still blamed for the Kennedy assassination. While all the evidence directly contradicts this.

Your rather stupid and uninformed speculation is utter bullshit shruggedatlas. We have no need for it. Put your foot in it ok? That's if you don't want to look like an idiot of course.

The smallest office item was a chunk of a phone keyboard the size of a coin. Then there was a  perfectly intact passport found on the site.

HAHAHAHA !!!! shruggedatlas  is apparently living in his fox news fantasy world! What a crackpot this guy is, it's unbelievable!! Whatsup shruggedatlas?? are you a moron or something? This was the only paper item left after the controlled demolition of a skyscraper.
That's like having a forest fire with one totally unharmed tree surviving. You are not going to speculate your way out of this. The tree was not there during the fire. All evidence supports this FACT.

But here you are

Claiming jet fuel burned reinforced steel while leaving paper perfectly in tact.

You should go to your brain doctor. The building changed into DUST remember?? It turned into dust using up ZERO gravitational potential.

ONE paper item was salvaged!

It was a perfectly intact passport.

There is not even a little bit of maybe in this planted evidence.

How sad for you!!

You tried to ignore the thousands of facts and tried to debunk one little titbit of evidence.

And now even your little paper dragon has died. AHHHHHH you poor CIA agent!!

You tried to stalk people away from the topic by making stupid remarks.

That didn't work either.....

AHHHHHHHHHHH

And now reality has entirely caugh up with you!!

Time to look for a new job?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248
MIT Engineer Breaks Down WTC Controlled Demolition

Gheee 100+ eye witnesses claiming explosions?

Here you have the Dutch TV just in case you still think your disinformation project still has some hope.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2164562607157128626&q=controlled+demolition&total=1444&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
Controlled Demolition Expert and WTC7 (original subtitles)

Are you really going to speculate about half blown up eye witness Marlene Cruz??

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5557892057038504765&q=controlled+demolition+hospital&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Carpenter Marlene Cruz Survives Explosions in WTC Basement Ow but she is just an eye witness, what does she know right? OW wait ..... 2 eye witnesses is enough for the electric chair in the US. Yeah, we actually listen to eye witnesses.

I guess your speculation is a boob shruggedatlas?  Why don't you read something about the subject before talking about it?

Why cant you be bothered to read before you post?

I forget which "alleged" moon mission astronaut said this, but when confronted by the evidence of faked moon landing, he responded with something like, "that's interesting, but why would we fake it six times?"

Ahhh, evidence against speculation again.

If the US government wanted to blow up the WTC. They would have been successful the first time right?

Lets have a corrupt judge attack the wire tap deal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/19/washington/19ruling.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Experts Fault Reasoning in Surveillance Decision - New York Times

Ohhhhhhhh, she left out all the real constitutional arguments. What an embarrassment!!

She ruled, for instance, that the program, which eavesdrops without court permission on international communications of people in the United States, violated the First Amendment because it might have chilled the speech of people who feared they might have been monitored.

YEAh, how is this relevant the CIA agent asks?

However, the evidence the defense initially planned to use during the trial was significantly restricted because Judge Taylor found most of it unsubstantiated and based on rumors.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/nichols_16.html
The Timothy McVeigh Story: The Oklahoma Bomber - The Crime Library - The Crime library

McVeigh Video Destroys OKC Bombing Official Story
Shows McVeigh was in military receiving instruction in "explosives and demolition" over a year after official story says he was discharged

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/okc_coverup.htm
Oklahoma City Bombing Cover-Up

Ahhhhh,

So you CIA people have a long history of COCAINE trafficking and fearmongering US citizens. Have any good speculation for us shruggedatlas? Maybe we should also cover the Bush family financing Hitler during world war 2? What about the suppression of medical care? What about napalming Vietnamese babies? You really think you are going to convince anyone it's not true eh?

Want a nice Anthrax vaccine anyone?

Lets just say you wont stick any support the genocide ribbons on my car shruggedatlas. It's people like you who turned the US into a 3rd world police state/dictatorship.

The Euro was suppose to have a fixed value relative to the Dollar.


Can you read charts shruggedatlas?? Do you see we cant even print the Euro's fast enough???

Want to speculate about it eh?  Maybe it's just the facts eh? I don't think you have any chance at dis-informing people as fast as I inform them. You are like 100% outgunned to use an American expression.

And the most sad part for you is that you cant fearmonger me the way you brutalise US citizens. I'm just going to talk back and tell you to read before you talk. I mean, why don't you do some reading before you post?

Is that to much to ask now?