9/11 truth movement topic

[Elvis Oswald]

Utilitarian - Did you think Bush was paranoid about Saddam and his WMDs?  Even after there turned out to be none at all??
I'm just guessing that you are a Bush supporter - who else would ignore the shredding of the constitution...

Tell us what you think about the war on terror?  the war on drugs?  Do you worry that homosexuals will take your bible?

Or do you just worry that the "liberals" will raise your taxes?

OK - I'll stop guessing and get down to brass tacks.  The federal government has overstepped it's bounds.  The constitution outlines those bounds and they have taken more and more and they have violated the rights we specifically outlined as being inalienable - not to mention the ones we should have that we didn't specifically outline.

If you are ok with that, then you need to be quiet about it - otherwise, you are aiding and abetting TREASON.

[Pirate88179]

@ Gary:

I almost don't like posting here for several reasons, the main one being, I don't have any answers.  Again, I can't disagree with your post.  Some of the other extreme, paranoid conspiracy stuff, especially Alex Jones's crap, I can and do disagree with.

For you, and others that do not want to, or are not going to vote....it is our right to vote and therefore, our right NOT to.  The choice is yours.  Unfortunately, your idea of a PAC is the way things are getting done these days.  I don't agree with it, the founding fathers did not plan it this way, but this is where we are.  You are right though, if everyone banded together and formed a large PAC with millions of dollars, we would get more done than through our votes.  Sad but true.  There are some folks out there attempting this (Herritage Foundation, of which I am a member) but, I have many doubts if anything will really be accomplished.  One has to try though.

I do enjoy engaging in political discussions on ideology and comparing and contrasting different points of view.  but, sadly, it usually quickly degrades into name calling and personal attacks.  We are all Americans and have a right to think whatever we want.  I do try to be careful to remember that when posting.  I might think "X" someone else might think "Y", it does not mean he is a blithering idiot or his mother is a whore.  It seems the one thing most here can agree on is that no one is happy with our choices, for whatever reason.  And that, to me, is very sad.  Like I said, if I think of any answers, I will let you all know.  Right now, I don't have any.

Bill

[Pirate88179]

@ Elvis:

Again, I agree with this latest post EXCEPT the old WMD stuff.  He had them...I know, everyone knows, why does this keep coming up?  He gassed 300,000 of his own people...nerve gas...is that not a WMD?  Now if you are talking strictly nuclear, that's something different.  But first, something you may or may not know....he HAD WMD (nerve gas) and we knew this because, yes, WE sold it to him to prop him up. (Not one of our best moves) We also found many, many caches of WMD hidden in bunkers, etc. If the conversation is only about nuclear, well, he surrendered after the gulf war, signed a treaty that allowed weapon inspectors, no fly zone, etc.  He shot at our planes in the no fly zone over 900 times, and kicked the inspectors out.  That, to me anyway, seems enough to call off the peace.  We would have done so in WWII if Japan began shooting at us after signing the treaty.

All I'm politely trying to say here is that all intel (ours, British, Israel, Russian) all pointed to nucs in 5 years or less, possibly sooner.  If we didn't go back in and he nuked Israel or England, we would have been despised for it.  I hate all war but at times, it is required.  Was this war required?  History will judge that.  I lost some good friends over there so I am not happy about it either.  By the way, I read some intel reports (classified) that clearly shows his nuclear project was moved to Iran during our pissing around with the UN.  This explains how they might have accelerated their program as they have.

Bill

[resonanceman]

I do enjoy engaging in political discussions on ideology and comparing and contrasting different points of view.  but, sadly, it usually quickly degrades into name calling and personal attacks.  We are all Americans and have a right to think whatever we want.  I do try to be careful to remember that when posting.  I might think "X" someone else might think "Y", it does not mean he is a blithering idiot or his mother is a .  It seems the one thing most here can agree on is that no one is happy with our choices, for whatever reason.  And that, to me, is very sad.  Like I said, if I think of any answers, I will let you all know.  Right now, I don't have any.

Bill

I do  see the  value in   getting  some of these things more out in the open ......... but like you  I don't agree with all of them .
I also agree that  all to often these  kinds of topics tend to  degrade into  name calling  and  such .......
For the most part I stopped  most of my name calling  shortly  after high school .
I stopped  beating   myself  up  for long enough  to see that  even though I am ignorant in alot of areas  I am also  brilliant  in some areas . 
Just because  someone   may seem to be brilliant at the moment ........that doesn't mean  that they are " smarter" than me . .......or that I am stupid .....  it means that they are  functioning  in a area that they function well in.

Just because  someone   may be showing  their ignorance   also  doesn't mean that they are stupid ....... I do  believe that  everyone is  brilliant   in some area ...........although  .........I have met  one  or 2 that  seem to  work very hard  at  proving me  wrong about this .     

To  call  someone stupid    is to say that just because   you  understand something  that   everyone  else is  inferior to you if they don't have equal  understanding .
We all have UNIQUE understanding  based on our own  life experiences .

I will never assume that my understanding is  superior  or better than anyone elses .....it is just mine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for  what can  be done  about  the  problems we face with  government  secrecy and corruption .......  My perspective is probably unique here .   
I tend to see things  from  a more spiritual  perspective .

There is  little or nothing  that we can do PHYSICALY   to  overcome  secret  societys that are   controling   much of our lives  ............    I don't think there is a need  to do anything .

We are  going  through a time of great  physical changes in the world .
But  we are going though  even  greater  changes in the spiritual  realm .
Although  most of us  can't see the changes in  our  spiritual  makeup ......we are changing ........and those  changes will sweep away  most  of the  problems in the world  when the time is right.

gary

[Elvis Oswald]

Actually the intelligence said that he was at least 10 years away.  It also said that any reports of WMDs or nukes were dubious.

Read what the hawks were saying before the war.  They said he was intent on starting a nuclear program.  Jeez... the hawks listed the top 10 reasons and everyone said "might" or :could" or some other qualifying word.  I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

the nerve gas we sold him (and remember Rummy shook his hand after he used it) would have been no good after all that time.  And No - there were no finds of stockpiles of WMDs.  There were reports from FOX (fiar and balanced journalism) that the WMDs had been found... they ran the ticker all day long - BREAKING NEWS!!!  And then slowly, it was eventually discredited in a quiet manner.  Propaganda - that's what it is.

Just like the "revelation" that has been leaked, piece by piece, that they are tapping our phone calls and emails.  Hell - they were doing that in the 90's.

George Bush has admitted that there were no WMDs.  the best minds in the neocon movement insinuate that they were moved to Syria... but if he had them.. why didn't he use them against us??  What would be the point of having WMDs to kill us and then not use them when we came?

Bush has admitted there were no ties to al queda (a pre-emptive strike... in case you bring that up.) 

But all of that is mute.  We are still there.  We are occupying Iraq.  That was the whole purpose of going.  Saddam was the dictator ruling over the 67% Shite until he stepped out of line.  Now our kids are the dictator.
If we wanted to free the Iraqi people... then we should have left a looong time ago.
did you know that we have started arming and funding the sunnis??
It's the same old shit - but we are in charge.

And afghanisrtan - we did it "on the cheap" to quote Rummy.  we "supported" the northern alliance... and let bin laden go *if he was ever there.)  I doubt - given The bush families relationship with the saudi royals - that osama will ever be killed or captured.

Why - if the hijackers were saudis - did we not attack saudi Arabia?

Why - if the hijackers were funded by the UAE - did we sell them the ports?  Why is the carlyle group moving to Dubai? 

All this smoke and people say I'm paranoid for suggesting that there may be a fire?

Clinton is as much a part of this shit too.  When confronted about 9/11 - instead of addressing the facts... he said "how dare you - I was there after 9/11 with the victims families"  WTF does that have to do with the facts?

Bush 41 wrote NAFTA - Clinton signed it.  Both parties have sold us out to the FED and to the global corporations.  Why would any of them do anything for us?  Everything they do is about furthering their agenda.



One last comment.  A pac to raise millions?  What about Ron Paul's campaign?  What about howard Dean's?   Therer are movements.  The Dean people supported Ron Paul this time... and next time it will be someone else... and eventually... we will get close enough to cause a confrontation.  This time we will not sit by while they lie about magic bullets.