UFO politics Keeps his word 12-12 12 Let the games begin.......

[Red_Sunset]

To all OU talent out there,

OUpolitics apparently got to this advanced stage based on a principle that appeared to have merit.
If that principle has merit, now having a few difficulties is not the time to abandon him.  This is the time to throw in all your weight to HELP him to achieve the target if you can .
The implementation(1) of a concept(2) are two separate requirements,
If (2) is sound, than an incorrect implementation can be the problem.

Naturally, this is on the condition that you AGREE with OUpolitics reasoning and his proposed concept.  Do not walk away from a challenge. Show your true colors !  Don't be too ready to jump on upon someone who has some difficulty.

If you weren't displaying your colors at the concept development stage, don't appear now ready to hit the man down !

PS: I would help, but for me the concept principle is flawed, but that is only me.

[ramset]

RS
Funny I was just thinking something similar

I will post the link

Here, comments today regarding these issues from UFO

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11933-open-discussion-projects-forum-9.html#post219405

A little help would be nice, if not the concept then How to make this DC pulse measurement effectively [has also caused me grief in the past]\
Thx
Chet

[Red_Sunset]

...........................................................
A little help would be nice, if not the concept then How to make this DC pulse measurement effectively [has also caused me grief in the past]\
Thx
Chet

To my limited knowledge, there is no meter that will be able to sort out a difficult waveform accurately, and I do not think that this would matter at this point in time.

1..  I am sure that the first knowledge and question you are after is, "is it OverUnity or not ?",  this should allow you a fair margin of tolerance. So if the power ratio between in & output is not marginal, you should be able to determine if you are winning or not.

2..  Thereafter you can home in for accuracy.

If you can not determine if you are in the ballpark with #1,  that I think you need to have a closer look at the concept.
Technically pushing the input and output through seperate DC-DC convertors with a known performance ratio would simplify the actual measurement by smoothing out the in & output waveforms.

[picowatt]

RS
Funny I was just thinking something similar

I will post the link

Here, comments today regarding these issues from UFO

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11933-open-discussion-projects-forum-9.html#post219405

A little help would be nice, if not the concept then How to make this DC pulse measurement effectively [has also caused me grief in the past]\
Thx
Chet

Typically a high current shunt is used to measure large current.  They look something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shunt-Resistor-for-DC-75A-75mV-Current-Meter-Ammeter-/120872306540?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c248d076c


I am not endorsing that particular one, but the 75 mv drop at 75 amp would be handy, as the drop would be 1mv per amp (zooming in on the image there is also a 100 amp .5 stamped on this one, possibly this is its overload or peak rating or a stock photo but it is a bit confusing).  The measurement precision would determined pretty much by the shunt resistor tolerance (as well as the DVM utilized).  The slots cut into the sides of the shunt (visible in the ebay photo) usually indicate some attempt to trim the shunt for accuracy was performed.

I would bolt something like this to the battery negative and connect all wires originally connected to that end of the battery to the free end of the shunt.

As one would expect a fair amount of noise across the shunt due to commutation, one end of a 50 to 100 ohm resistor can be soldered to one end of a film or ceramic capacitor.  The free end of the cap would connect to the battery neg terminal end of the shunt and the free end of the resistor to the other end of the shunt.  Measurement would be via a DVM connected across the capacitor.

I would use two conductor shielded wire to connect the DVM to the cap, and only connect the shield to the DVM negative terminal (just cut off the shield wire on the other end of the wire and put a piece of heat shrink on it to dress out the end).  It does not take much to pick up a few millivolts of noise in a sparking commutator environment, hence the shielded wire.

I would also be a good idea to put one of these inline at any one of the battery interconnect loops:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-8-GAUGE-AGU-FUSE-HOLDER-5-PACK-100-AMP-AGU-FUSES-FAST-FREE-USA-SHIPPING-/230818216122?pt=US_Car_Audio_Video_Fuses_Fuse_Holders&hash=item35bdd678ba&vxp=mtr

I have in the past seen what an angry lead acid battery can do...

PW





       

[picowatt]

I see a length of heavy gauge wire is being considered as a shunt.  Although this concept is sound for DC, the current noise components present due to commutation and arcing will see the inductance inherent in any significant length of wire and produce a much larger AC/noise component across the shunt.  It could be made to work but would likely require a greater degree of filtering (resistor and cap as in previous).  As well, if a 'scope measurement is desired to see the actual commutation signal, the inductance in the length of wire would make this difficult to do accurately.

Also, without a fairly precise dummy load to calibrate to, the exact value of a wire shunt such as this would not really be known.  A dummy load could be constructed to calibrate the wire if desired, but the inductance issue would rule out this method for me.


PW