Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[Farmhand]

No Problem then, Yes the resonance is the key to a lot of his stuff but not all, some of them it is just better to have it and some don't have it.

As far as pulse motors and series resonance goes, I just do what comes naturally to me and what seems like a good idea because there is no law against it and it stops me injuring myself doing other harder work type stuff, I've got a busted neck. I think in my setup there are a lot of different things going on and I make no real claims as yet except I get two driving phases from one switching phase and there is energy returned and adds to the potential of the circuit, that's resonance in one way I think.

But I as far as I can tell the parallel capacitor in my Tesla coil DC HV primary circuit is sometimes in parallel and sometimes in series with the supply.
It's in parallel because it's across the voltage charging it and it's in series because it's the only load when it's charged, so it must be. It is only in parallel with the primary when the spark gap is conducting, the close coupling and the Large primary diameter means it just rings along with the secondary when not excited like it's not there, almost.  My guess is it actually causes havoc and it is definitely not a continuous wave transformer. But I will build one one day.

As for series resonance capacitors in Tesla coil primary circuits they are in parallel with the primary when the spark gap conducts as well. Are they not ?

Cheers

[Magluvin]

I asked Magluvin and he bowed out and threw the question back at me.  What do you think?

Yes I did throw it back at you.  It seems no matter how I describe it you continue to post as if I have not and keep questioning "What does neutralizing self inductance mean?"

Im tired of it already. Im not here to teach you how to read. Im not here to give links to the definitions of 'neutralize' nor 'self inductance'. Should not have to with your self proclaimed experience from '30 years ago'.  I know you know some things. Why cant you understand what that statement means "neutralize self inductance'? Between all of us here in the thread, you are the only one that seems to have a problem with it.  What gives?

And the idea that a messy coil is no different than a tight, neatly wound coil beyond saying that different winding techniques from the norm have no differences either, I think you need to hit the books before you make such claims.

Mags

[Farmhand]

I'm interested in what you're doing Mags because you have a bike, I like bikes with motors.  And I like all different kinds of motors too and engines and other machines as well.

One example of a good use for a pulse motor might be to raise water, I have rain water tanks both elevated and ground level, if I had a reasonably powerful and efficient pulse motor it could move air as a fan and pump water from the ground tank to the elevated tank when I want it to so then the water can flow back down and out of the tap under it's own weight. It doesn't matter how long it takes to pump 1000 litres of water if the motor is running all the time anyway as a big fan with a shaft and some coupling arrangement to the pump. It gets mighty hot here in summer usually so fans go day and night. No air con here.

The energy to run the motor would be free from the sun and it could run easily non stop from my solar charged batteries using an amp or two when it's hot outside.

A free energy machine might be a machine that uses lots of free energy provided by the sun. hehehehe

pulse motors would seem to be able to work on bikes as a motive aid, so that might be fun.

If something works for you Mags do it. We're here to talk and share and help each other. I seem to find myself disagreeing with everyone at some point.

I think we all should remember that we all have different wants and objectives. I like to build stuff and learn new things in my own way and I find these forums have helpful people even if I do need to argue the information out of them. 

Cheers

[MileHigh]

Really Magluvin?

I am going to quote you:

We talked about the capacitance neutralizing the self inductance the other day.
If we have a coil with a cap across it, and then we just apply a dc source across it, the cap will charge virtually instantly, but the inductor wont. This might imitate a neutralizing of self inductance of the coil, where the current flows easily through the cap. We are talking about applying DC here.

If the capacitance is 'in' the coil, well that current that charges that capacitance goes 'through the coil' neutralizing the self inductance. And if it neutralizes self inductance, then maybe we could think, does that mean that the magnetic field is neutralized also, or just the effect of impedance is neutralized and outer magnetic field is unaffected. If so then initially there could be a very intense field pulse, as compared to a slowly building standard inductive field build, depending in the inductance.

That internal capacitance is charged through a coil that can make an external field like any other coil and the impedance is neutralized. So until this capacitance is charged, this coil might be acting like a super electromagnet. Sounds like a heck of an idea to patent.

If we consider the cap connected to a coil, there probably isnt any purpose for it in the DC world. But here the capacitance is in the coil, and in my opinion, there should be a difference.

Also I stated earlier about the ability of holding power over time. Well if the field is huge in the beginning through the object being held, this may give us that stronger hold over time, instantly instead.

Thats not true. If there is capacitance in the coil, it should be ignored, right? If we were to put a cap across a normal coil as you say, if we pulsed it like in a pulse motor, the very first thing the circuit sees is the capacitance and the circuit charges it before much happens in the coil. But in the bifi, the charging of the capacitance happens through the windings of the coil, and since the capacitance neutralizes the self inductance till the capacitance of the coil is fully charged. Talking a DC pulse of course.

Everything I highlighted above in your statements is completely wrong.  Tesla was talking AC impedance in a series LC resonator going to zero - that's the "neutralizing of self-inductance."  So you started this thread with a completely incorrect impression of what this concept was all about and you made statements about basic electronics that don't make sense.  And I will repeat again that none of what Tesla stated in the patent had anything to do with pulse motors and you are incorrectly applying it to pulse motors.

First line is mine and the second line is yours:

"What do you and Farmhand and possibly others really mean when you say "neutralizes" in this context?"

And possibly others? lol  Tesla had the patent and he said it.  What do you think it means in your context?

Honestly I think you actually were stymied and weren't able to answer the question after reading the ongoing discussion so you threw it back at me as an attempted diversion.

Quoting you again:

I know you know some things. Why cant you understand what that statement means "neutralize self inductance'? Between all of us here in the thread, you are the only one that seems to have a problem with it.  What gives?

From your comments further above, it's crystal clear that you are the one that didn't understand what the statement meant.

Nice try at being the "cool dude with the poker face," but I ain't buying it.  Better luck next time.

And the idea that a messy coil is no different than a tight, neatly wound coil beyond saying that different winding techniques from the norm have no differences either, I think you need to hit the books before you make such claims."

Really?  Let's hear you explain where I am wrong then.  Please no throw-backs or ducking the question.  Why should I have to hit the books with respect to my statement?

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

I'm interested in what you're doing Mags because you have a bike, I like bikes with motors.  And I like all different kinds of motors too and engines and other machines as well.

One example of a good use for a pulse motor might be to raise water, I have rain water tanks both elevated and ground level, if I had a reasonably powerful and efficient pulse motor it could move air as a fan and pump water from the ground tank to the elevated tank when I want it to so then the water can flow back down and out of the tap under it's own weight. It doesn't matter how long it takes to pump 1000 litres of water if the motor is running all the time anyway as a big fan with a shaft and some coupling arrangement to the pump. It gets mighty hot here in summer usually so fans go day and night. No air con here.

The energy to run the motor would be free from the sun and it could run easily non stop from my solar charged batteries using an amp or two when it's hot outside.

A free energy machine might be a machine that uses lots of free energy provided by the sun. hehehehe

pulse motors would seem to be able to work on bikes as a motive aid, so that might be fun.

If something works for you Mags do it. We're here to talk and share and help each other. I seem to find myself disagreeing with everyone at some point.

I think we all should remember that we all have different wants and objectives. I like to build stuff and learn new things in my own way and I find these forums have helpful people even if I do need to argue the information out of them. 

Cheers

If i were to conjure up your idea right here, this would be my approach.. 

First we have to know how much pressure we are dealing with to pump water up. Then purchase a pump that can handle the pressure. If it is going to be a pulse motor, I might suggest a flywheel rotor to keep the wheel going between pulses, as I imagine the pressure of the water in the up tube to possibly be quite great and working against the rotor being driven. As for the coils, use as many or more than the number of magnets on the rotor/flywheel and tie the drive coils in series. Here is why in series...

Like speaker systems, if you power a speaker 4ohm at 100w, and get 100db, you can now use 2 speakers to get more db with the same input.    Here is why... and how...

The single speaker, 4ohm, with 100w signal produces 100db.  If we double the input to 200w we get an increase of 3db to 103db. 
Now, when we series wire 2 speakers, and input 100w, each speaker will only see 50w but we get 103db, for the same input 100w. Follow me.

1 speaker at 50w only delivers 97db, a loss of 3db. Double the wattage, increase 3db. Halve the wattage decrease 3db.

So we have 1 speaker with 50w putting out 97 db. WHEN WE ADD ANOTHER SPEAKER WITH AN INPUT OF 50w, WE GET A 6db INCREASE!!!!

How can that be?  But it is. We get the same output from 2 speakers with 100w total input as we would 200w into 1 speaker!!     

Thats why coils in series. More efficiency. 

4 speakers in series. 4 ohm each, now 16 ohms and 25w/94db each 100w total.

1 speaker 25w     94db

2 speakers, 25w each, 50w total    add 6 db   100db

Add 2 more speakers for a total of four speakers and input total of 100w     106db!!!

1 speaker would need to be powered with 400w to produce the 106db!!!

lol, now tune port those boxes to 30hz and run 100w total 30hz in, add another near 8db typical. Thats some resonance effects for ya. Thats like 1 speaker with 800w but only 100w in. Geddit? 

And the tuned box at 30hz, the speaker cone isnt visibly moving, but the port air is, a lot.   Did custom car audio professionally for almost 20 years. Biggest system 17kw, 24 12s and way too many mids and highs for my taste. I like real stereo, none of that surround sound distracting mumbo jumbo. Im a purist. Close your eyes and you can see the band out in front of the car in your mind. Difficult to do but not impossible.


I believe these pulse motors can be thought of this way.       In fact, its just about a direct correlation.    Electrical input to magnetic field to motive force. Same thing.

Now, if you were going to make an electric car. Would you use 4 motors, 1 in each wheel, or just 1 motor?   

Mags