Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

Please take it easy, we are just here to debate.  The coil has been discussed here, there is lots of good information.  Nobody is disputing anything about AC vs. DC.  You state, "impulses would be greatly enhanced by the coils design."  It all depends what you mean by "enhanced," that's not a technical term.  What do you mean?  Yes all coils can generate high voltage impulses, so that can't be what you are referring to.  You state, "Impulses of a one way direction are very powerful and would benefit from this type of capacitance increase in it's very design."  I notice you have said that before but what do you mean in technical terms?

For this comment, "Plus I am betting the current loop that this design incorporates is self accelerating in some way," is not a technical description.  The first thing you have to be thinking about is that if you are in AC self-resonant mode, then the current is a sine wave.  If you are in DC mode, the coil by definition resists changes in current.

Check this out, a great clip about the basics of inductance with the basic math made easy, and pay careful attention to the end of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8CPGiK59f8

Does that clip give you a feeling for how a coil works?

The guy's clips are great:  http://www.youtube.com/user/lasseviren1/videos

You accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about.  I do know what I am talking about.  Look at all his clips, that's what you should look at and try to absorb before you do some bench work.

The amount of winding necessary is minimum 500-1000 turns. Thats a lot of coil building. I will have to make up a jig to wind the coil properly.

I have some advice for you:  Just go to an electronics supply/hobbyist store and buy a nice big spool of wire whatever gauge you want.  That's it!  Just use the spool as is!  You could even buy a giant spool of two-conductor wire and within minutes have a giant Tesla series bifilar cap-coil.  Like taking candy from a baby.

I would strongly suggest that you avoid the oil immersion stuff for starters.  See what you can do without the oil before you start gooping your coils into buckets of oil or whatever you are going to do.  Gross!

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Jbignes5:

I have some comments about what you call "impulses."

In my mind I imagine that you imagine that if you hit a cap-coil with a train of short high-voltage impulses something out of the ordinary will happen.  That's the big thing that you want to explore with the cap-coil on the bench.  Am I close?

If you hit the cap-coil with impulses close or on its self-resonant frequency you can expect to see the sine wave oscillations taking place in the coil.

But if your pulsing is very slow, say 1 kHz, then the coil will not even really respond.  Again, coils resist changes in current flow.  If you pulse it with a sharp, short pulse of voltage, it won't react, it won't "budge."  It will act like an open-circuit.

Now you can run tests like these and you might find a cap-coil and a regular coil respond slightly differently.  So the questions are can you explain why and is the difference significant or noteworthy or advantageous in any way?

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

I just had an original idea for you Tesla series bifilar coil builders.

There are all sorts of multi-strand cables you can buy.  I think of the ones used in phone patch panels.  They have a grey outer sheath and then there is a wire bundle, perhaps anywhere from eight to 50+ wires in the bundle.  The wires are all binary colour-coded and easy to identify.  This is solid copper wire with a thin and tough insulation cover.  A keener would check the insulating material and look up its relative permittivity to see if it will give them a capacitive boost.

So suppose you get a big spool of this phone wire, the 16-strand version.  You strip off a few inches of sheath and carefully note the geometry of the wires in the bundle.  So you separate the strands into eight strands for the first half of the SBC coil and eight strands of the second half, such that they are all interleaved one next to the other in the bundle, like a checkerboard arrangement.  Note its an arrangement of interleaving conductors that's *tightly machine wound* for optimum capacitive effects.  It's just insane!  It's sick!

This arrangement looks like a cap-coil but with supercharged capacitance.  Each "wire" forming the half-coil has been sliced into eight spaghetti strands and interleaved with the eight spaghetti strands of the other half-coil.  So you can see that you have just increased the plate area of your capacitor by a huge amount.

You solder the ends of the strands together and screw your wire into a terminal block.  So you end up with a terminal block with the four electrical contacts for your two half-coils for the SBC coil.  Then you can wire it up as you please and nothing is stopping you from using the terminal block for wiring in things like loads or current sensing resistors, light bulbs, etc.

There is an important point related to this.  Big coils, you figure you want to have big currents.  Alligator clips won't work in this setup.  Nice bigger-gauge "vice" type terminal blocks making a simple patch field for your experiments would be much better.  You can make short lengths of thick wire with tinned ends to do interconnects, etc, and tighten them down with a screwdriver.

If anybody plays with a big coil just remember that it can zap you.

MileHigh

[jbignes5]

Jbignes5:

I have some comments about what you call "impulses."

In my mind I imagine that you imagine that if you hit a cap-coil with a train of short high-voltage impulses something out of the ordinary will happen.  That's the big thing that you want to explore with the cap-coil on the bench.  Am I close?

If you hit the cap-coil with impulses close or on its self-resonant frequency you can expect to see the sine wave oscillations taking place in the coil.

But if your pulsing is very slow, say 1 kHz, then the coil will not even really respond.  Again, coils resist changes in current flow.  If you pulse it with a sharp, short pulse of voltage, it won't react, it won't "budge."  It will act like an open-circuit.

Now you can run tests like these and you might find a cap-coil and a regular coil respond slightly differently.  So the questions are can you explain why and is the difference significant or noteworthy or advantageous in any way?

MileHigh

Ok lets get rid of some things you are getting confused about. Impulses are at the point source. They travel away at better then light speed because most space is not matter dense. In matter there is still the medium just in a finer density but still capable of conducting the potential like it's lower density on the outside of matter. Longitudinal energy can only be used with very high potentials and sudden releases of those very high potentials. If we use matter to form a pathway both within matter and outside of matter the same force is at both those places. Now just think what happens when you try to squeeze a hose that is running a good stream of water. It's pressure goes up and becomes more forceful when freed. Now think about what or how longitudinal energy works. With 1 wire we can convey a swinging pressure wave through matter. In one direction or the other. In the case of that description we should use a Avramenko plug as the converter to DC. But in my description this will be a constant impulse or longitudinal wave running in the coil in one direction only. The faster the pulses the more power this thing will have and yes even beyond the resonant mode. This is due to the excitation field that longitudinal waves produce.
We have all seen the exciter coils exciting huge fields of space. We have all experimented with these fields and many have reported their findings. We must now start experimenting with controlling these fields. Putting them into such relationships that we get an advantage for the energy we have to supply. This process is based off of Tesla's charged particle gun. Material that can be charged without touching the charger is a fundamental process. Induction is the whole reason Tesla could do the AC motor. Induction is not intrinsic to the magnetic phenomena. The electric field is responsible for induction. Any single or multi path transformer will show you that.
So, longitudinal energy works like water flowing through a pipe. It's motion is dictated by pressure and the abruptness of the application of that pressure. The flatter the face of the longitudinal energy the stronger the bang you will get when it gets to it's destination. A 1 directional flow is way more powerful because multiple waves hit in succession.
Now think about this energy flowing in the bifilar coil. The self induction is all but removed at the resonant frequency which means that it does not react from false currents<- reverse currents. This should allow the impulse waves to travel without resistance but from the actual resistance of the wire itself. Like I said parallel coils should take care of the real resistance. Not multi stranded wire. The wire should be solid core or better yet pipe like. The latter suggestion is planned and you guessed it, it will be oil filled.


Now lets look at the design of a single coil of the bifilar design. It should start from the outter rings towards the inner and this is why. What happens to anything that spins and you shorten the connector to the item spinning? Does it not get faster? Does its force change when you try to stop either suddenly?


My ideal understanding of this force is to imagine the face of the water going down the pipe. It has a surface and from that surface radiates the electric field. Even from the inside of matter like the pipe. This is induction working to our advantage. As the impulses travel through the piping they will radiate an electric field at each face of the impulse waves. Now apply this to a many turn coil getting smaller and smaller as it turns down to the center? Would the speed of transition of these waves increase in speed the further you get towards the center? Would these waves of electric field boost the impulses just entering the coils? Now add the other coil and make it so the impulses exiting the first coil now go through another coil along the first coil? What effect do you think this would have on both coils? All flowing towards the center and both speeding up and gaining in voltage from this increase in speed and radiative effects as well get stronger towards the central exit....


It's funny that the Tesla Turbine actually uses the very same concept. Hmmm very funny indeed.

Whats this.. Done with my post and you write more? WTF you think you are me or something? Rofl...

Yeah this thing will need better then average wiring. I'll use appropriate gauge when needed.. A real experiment is not with alligator clips.. I don't like em. Never had good results with them because they have a higher resistance. I usually use a sniffer coil also when hooking coils to the scope. Usually  single wind is enough. I have to test a big coil. There is supposed to be a relationship with the length of a single strand in these designs. The frequency of impulses will be a determining factor to this length as well. There is something I didn't contemplate yet and that is the wave propagation in the bifilar coil.

[MileHigh]

That's quiet something that you said, the gulf is wide.  I looked at some of the comments on that guy's clips, and people are saying that he is fantastic.  He really is, I can feel it.  He does nice white-board style talks using paper and a marker.  Did you glance through his set of 200+ clips to see how he covers a lot of ground?  Everything he teaches in those clips is covered across a few university physics and electronics courses.  You really should look at all of his clips.  He is the real thing, and his clips can teach you about real electronics.

You are very "far out" Jbignes5, reading your prose was startling and in a way unsettling.  I don't know what else to say.  I hope your health permits you to do your bench work and you have some fun doing that.

MileHigh