Big try at gravity wheel

[TinselKoala]

This post was originally made by WEBBY... but is he talking to himself? Sure seems like it to me, with a tiny bit of editing.

I do find it funny that information that gave out already is being shown as something "new".

WEBBY:

You have not supported your claim at all, so please supply the actual support that allows you to say that the ZED  can return more work than is put into it in the first place.

To do this would mean that you would have to run the numbers, so you could just show as all what those numbers were, not to mention that you would have to check a few conditions,, you can show us all that.

Since YOU seem to be the king of OU,, why don't YOU tell US how to do it.

You have not even covered which riser you would use,, they all have different potentials, I take it you are aware of that.

And now of course we have the word from the Messiah Himself, that a single zed can be overunity. So let's see the proof of that, please. "Our physics" is simple and pure... so even us bookbound idiots who actually studied things like engineering physics at university should be able to understand it. Yet none of the Travis sycophants have ever demonstrated this "pure and simple" special physics of Travis and company, to show that it "works" as they claim. Nowhere will you find Travis's design for the "simple three layer system that is clearly overunity by itself" that he claimed actually to HAVE, several years ago. Where is it? Nowhere, that's where. Travis has nothing but leaky, groaning kludges that all require external power to operate. He has no evidence to present, just more words and more claims without evidence.

[TinselKoala]

Hey, if I "imagine" frictionless or negative friction bearings, my magnet motors would run forever, too. But we aren't talking about imaginary, cost-less processes here, are we?

Every time you compress something and then return it to the starting pressure, you LOSE energy due to radiated heat. This energy must be replaced just to break even. Every time you transfer something through a pipe, you LOSE energy due to viscous friction, eventually radiated away as heat. This energy must be replaced just to break even. Every time you "precharge" something, and this precharge is then distributed through the system, you must supply energy to RESTORE the system back to its starting state, with all the precharge back where it started from. This energy needs to come from somewhere, and Travis Himself says you don't need another Zed to do it, or all those layers. "A simple, three layer system that is clearly overunity by itself"... remember? His exact words, talking about something real, tangible, he actually claimed to have years ago. SO why aren't we analyzing THAT very system? I know why... and so do you.

So not only do you have to show some stage in the process where energy _increases_ somehow, you also have to show that the increase in energy is sufficient to overcome the _real world losses_ that are inevitable... no matter whose "physics, simple and clear" you use. Unless you are using the Wizard of Oz's physics, that is. Follow the yellow brick road, all the way to Travis's bank, for the "real" secret of the Zed.

[minnie]

  Hi,
      mrwayne is naive in the extreme when it comes to the real world.Last week I was
   using a 15kw water pump to flush my sewage treatment plant  and the volume of
   water it was shifting was quite amazing. There's no way you could get a flow like
   that through a see- sawing ZED unless it was gigantic and even then there would
   be massive problems with inertia if you tried for many cycles per minute.
      To get a bit of an idea about flow and pressure I was talking to my brother
   yesterday, he does pipelines, and he said that some of the 120cm mains run at
   a staggering 85 bar.
      I believe that if you could get a ZED to work, by some means, you'd end up with
   a 30 ton phone charger.
                                         John

[MarkE]

If you look at the drawings for the walk through and draw 2 lines, one comes from the top of the filler for the start condition side and goes across the sate 2 side and the other comes from the bottom of the state 2 cylinder where the air column should stop, and comes back across the stat condition cylinder.

I am sure that either MarkE or TK know off the top of there heads what formula or law or whatever states this,, but you can move the stored potential from the state 2 side over to the start condition side free of charge.

If need be imagine sealing and cutting the cylinders and filler on those lines,, you can move them anywhere laterally with no cost.

For a buoyant lift the cost is in building the "float" so when you look at this free shift, you can see that 90 percent of the cost in building the "float" is paid for by the previous "float",, that potential is recovered and recycled.

Webby for about the twentieth time: hand waving is no substitute for performing an energy balance.  You can go about things like Mondrasek is by defining geometry and then the steps in a a complete cycle.  Carefully evaluate the energy that it takes to get from one step to another and then tally it all up and see where you get.

I will point out to you as I have before that when one takes those two columns with one "fully charged", IE in the up position with all water displaced out from under the cylinder, and then equalizes the pressure with the second column initially filled with water and held in the down position that for your geometries:  nearly half of the stored energy is lost to heat during the pressure equalization.  That energy will have to be restored to complete a cycle.  For geometries similar to yours that lost energy is about twice the energy you can extract lifting the weight.  IOW you are already down to a best case efficiency of only about 50% just by equalizing the pressures.

[Marsing]

............
MarkE,

You have not supported your claim at all, so please supply the actual support that allows you to say that the ZED can be reduced down to a single piston.
..........

................
And yes - TK a single ZED can be OU - if you simple store the recycled energy and return it on the next stroke, as I said two yeas ago - which you omitted every time you miss applied the context. As I said before - why add the extra effort and time - simply transfer between systems. Get over it - you missed it.
.............

confusing,  webby should  ask  mrwayne for single piston ?!!!