Big try at gravity wheel

[tim123]

And now we have a patent
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130256066

Thanks Ponto
  It's an interesting read... I've given it some thought, played around with my model, and I can't disprove what it says. It makes some sense...

From reading the patent, I now know which way the thing is supposed to rotate - and that helps a lot.

- The parallel bars make a 'Roberval Balance' (?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE  - This is the default support for the weights.

- As the linkage moves to the shaft connecting-rod - the center of mass does indeed seem to move out to the bar-end.

- This means work must be done to lift the mass into that position. It says so in the patent too.

- The lift seems to be done in about 25 degrees of rotation - and it then can usefully act on about 100 degrees as the crank descends. But these settings are adjustable - and he has locks too - which would definitely help.

- So, yes I can imagine that the extra 'cylinders' of the engine might keep it going round...

The weight supporting arm on my model (the yellow rectangles) is quite short. From the patent - that arm needs to be longer...

I'm still undecided... I may have to build a full replica with 8 cylinders... Maybe not a full-size one though...

[vince]

Hi Tim123


I think you hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of the RAR Energia machine. It is indeed a roberval balance linkage and if they get there locking system correct I believe their machine can run itself.
If they can get the weight arm to alternately lock to the neutral vertical beam and one of the lower support beams they can produce some real torque and raise the weight back up at a fraction of the torque weight.


I was fascinated by their machine and made a little test rig ( shown in attached pictures).  The effect is real and quite an eye opener.
If you look at the pictures you can see that the weight arm is free to rotate around the lower pivot pin.
The weights themselves weigh 2.5 lbs.
Notice the weight arm has 2 projections with holes in them. These are the locking plates akin to the arch rings on the energia machine.
When no pin is in place the weight arm just flops down.
When the pin is locked into the hole on the neutral vertical roberval balance linkage it exhibits a force of 6.25 lbs measured at a radius of 3" from the central pivots.
When the pin is locked into the lower support arm of the roberval balance linkage it exhibits a whopping force of 18.25 lbs measured at the same 3 " radius.
That's a net gain of 12 lbs.
if they are successful at alternating the locking points on their machine each one of the cranks is going to make huge torque and easily lift the ascending weights.


Guys, I think this machine is real and may be a game changer.
Try the experiment for yourselves or just consider my test rig. The potential for their machine to work is high.


Vince

[helloha]

the wm2d version of rarEnergia (a simple edition),
have fun playing around with it

[tim123]

...Guys, I think this machine is real and may be a game changer.
Try the experiment for yourselves or just consider my test rig. The potential for their machine to work is high.
Vince

Hi Vince
   Thanks for the info - nice test setup!

It really does look like it's possible... It'll be interesting to see if the patent is granted - and if so - what he does with it...

I'll have to spend some time thinking about how to do a decent replication... But, I'd really like 10KW to run my home - and a machine 1/3 the size would still be pretty chunky...

Idea: I wonder if the efficiency could be increased by getting the masses to swing - as pendulums..? Given the apparent change in mass - it could totally get over the 'sticky spot', and provide more push down too... It could also mean you don't need such big weights...

I guess either they'd not thought of that, discounted it as too tricky, or tried it and found it didn't work... I'll see if I can build it into whatever I make...

[tim123]

I've added the longer arm to my test rig, and I have some results to share:

Image 1)
This shows the test setup. Blue cogs on the left are just weight for counterbalance.
Rotation is clockwise.
The crank is resting at the top. This is just before the down stroke.

The next stage lifts the mass at the end of the red rectangles, onto the crank-connecting-rod. This takes a lot of work to do - it's a massive 'sticky spot', and it goes all the way round to 90 degrees (the 3 o-clock position). (I was wrong before - it's a full 90 degrees)

Image 2)
  This shows the crank resting at the 3-o-clock position. It can go either way from there, up or down, given a slight push.

Image 3)
This shows the bottom of the stroke.

Note the crank is resting at these positions - I don't have to hold it...

So, in conclusion, I'm not seeing any obvious mechanism for OU here. It takes a lot of effort to lift the arm from the 'neutral' position into a 'positive' position...