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Overunity Machines Forum



Big try at gravity wheel

Started by nfeijo, May 03, 2013, 10:03:04 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 56 Guests are viewing this topic.

MarkE

Quote from: TinselKoala on February 27, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UoaFXyKN54
That looks and sounds like the useless scheme promoted by James Kwok around the same time period.  Buoyancy schemes to a one only aggravate inefficiency.

MarkE

Quote from: webby1 on February 27, 2014, 06:06:38 PM
I asked Wayne for this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0TITC4Wrc

and the attached drawing.

What this is, is a simple solution to the pressure equalization loss issue.

By having the elevated ZED discharge its pressure into the arm that connects the two bags together via the bag, it also moves the weights and the tube filled with fluid that move with that arm as well.  This in effect allows for the pressure that is not needed by the other ZED to be used to raise the GPE of the pole, weights and tube, and after mid-stroke that GPE is returned and used to assist the the descending ZED in providing further input to raise the other ZED.

This is an older design, and this exact method is no longer needed due to design changes.


I am still working on my homework :)
Webby, unfortunately that doesn't work either.  First, lets get our terms right:  pressure doesn't charge and discharge.  Energy does.  We can communicate forces and pressures.  Next let's talk about the pressure that the "other ZED needs".  Unless you have a third source of air, which you would then need to account for, each cc of air that goes into the second ZED comes from the first one.  If you don't get the air from the second one to the first, then you are stuck.  IE if you direct any amount of that air volume someplace else to do work, you still have to get that air back so that you can put it in the second cylinder.  So the scheme Wayne has outlined to you does not work as claimed.

MarkE

Quote from: webby1 on February 27, 2014, 08:19:09 PM
Yes MarkE.

I can then only lift one weight on the output side of a lever even if there is enough on the input side to raise 2 or 3.

Likewise the volume of fluid exiting the ZED expanding the bag can not do the same thing,, that is fluid moving under pressure over a distance,, interacting with 2 external resistances,,

Sure thing MarkE.

The other bag that is filling the other ZED is connected via an arm, there is no transfer of medium between the two ZEDs,,,
Webby work on it any way that you want and you will end up losing quite a bit of energy.  This is a common problem that occurs in multiple disciplines.  In electronics it occurs when charging an empty capacitor from a charged capacitor, or charging a discharged inductor from one with an established current.  It happens if energy is stored in a compressed or extended spring and energy is transferred to a relaxed spring.  And in hydraulics it occurs when transferring fluid from a column filled to some height into an empty column.  But by all means if you think that you have a way to conserve the volume and also even approximately conserve the energy, then detail out your proposed mechanism and show your work.

mondrasek

Quote from: MarkE on February 27, 2014, 08:27:38 PM
Webby work on it any way that you want and you will end up losing quite a bit of energy.  This is a common problem that occurs in multiple disciplines. ...  And in hydraulics it occurs when transferring fluid from a column filled to some height into an empty column.

MarkE, again I thank you.  You have provided some very useful information (at least form me!). 

M.

TinselKoala

Quote from: webby1 on February 27, 2014, 06:06:38 PM
I asked Wayne for this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0TITC4Wrc

and the attached drawing.

What this is, is a simple solution to the pressure equalization loss issue.

By having the elevated ZED discharge its pressure into the arm that connects the two bags together via the bag, it also moves the weights and the tube filled with fluid that move with that arm as well.  This in effect allows for the pressure that is not needed by the other ZED to be used to raise the GPE of the pole, weights and tube, and after mid-stroke that GPE is returned and used to assist the the descending ZED in providing further input to raise the other ZED.

This is an older design, and this exact method is no longer needed due to design changes.


I am still working on my homework :)
Didn't you notice that that machine is only "half" working? One side is considerably weaker than the other... yet it still "works". If you look closely at the stills and screenframes you will see some cables or hoses snaking off into the building behind, and you will also note that there IS a battery and that the control system display is powered by the battery -- and there doesn't seem to be any hydraulic motor or generator, like there may have been in the larger indoor system we first saw. Wayne gave me a ration of the usual ...er... rhetoric when I asked him about the things that look llike cables and hoses. I do not believe that that thing actually runs, or ran, itself.... and neither did Mark Dansie, I don't think. Surely it would have to have both sides working equally in order to "run itself". Don't you remember teeter-totters? If you have a scrawny little kid on one side and a... Wayne Travis-type on the other side and the moment arms are the same, pretty soon the system is gonna wind up with Travis at the bottom and the little kid at the top _unless_ somebody starts pushing the thing, supplying energy from outside or the precharge represented by Travis's breakfast.