Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap

[wattsup]

@conradelektro

I would like to remind you and everyone else that if you use a diode, don't expect to find the best one on your first try. This applies to germanium diodes as well when they are specifically required.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj0ShZV6bhY

I know I seem to repeat myself but you really are not aware of how much difference one diode will make compared to another of the same range or rating. This applies to solid state or motor driven, does not matter. You still need to hunt for the right diode. They are like women, each one as finicky as the next and only one will really do for a given job. Or better said, you need a Harem of diodes to run a good work bench. hahaha

Try and find as many diode models as you can. If you only have one or two it is not enough to hunt for the right diode.

The other point is this. Using the reed at the negative side of the coils is OK, but again, experimenting means trying all options, like on the positive side or even between coils 3-4 or other mix. The point is that when you pulse on the negative, the positive will already be in the coils and the change inside the coil may be minimal. If you pulse on the positive side, the negative will already be in the coils and now the positive has to "move" (hate that word) into the coils thus creating more change and possibly charging your cap to a higher energy state.

It is good now that you are testing without a feed source.

The other point is @lasersabers coils alternate NS. Are yours? If not maybe switch the wire directions on each second coil.

Ideally, given that your 6 coils are spread apart rather generously, you may consider adding more magnets to your rotor. 12 magnets would be very generous but maybe just add 1 or 2 more magnets creating an off timing effect that your spread coils may enjoy more then a sparsely timed impulse.

@lasersaber

Can you measure the inductance of one of your coils.

Also, I am leaving you a post on your web site.
http://laserhacker.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.msg1662#msg1662

wattsup

Added: A great web site for reeds......
Nice 3-way reeds here........
http://www.meder.com/spdt-switches6.html
Check their Section entitled Reed Switch Resources.

[conradelektro]

A) I would like to remind you and everyone else that if you use a diode, don't expect to find the best one on your first try. This applies to germanium diodes as well when they are specifically required.

B) The other point is this. Using the reed at the negative side of the coils is OK, but again, experimenting means trying all options, like on the positive side or even between coils 3-4 or other mix. The point is that when you pulse on the negative, the positive will already be in the coils and the change inside the coil may be minimal. If you pulse on the positive side, the negative will already be in the coils and now the positive has to "move" (hate that word) into the coils thus creating more change and possibly charging your cap to a higher energy state.

It is good now that you are testing without a feed source.

C) The other point is @lasersabers coils alternate NS. Are yours? If not maybe switch the wire directions on each second coil.

D) Ideally, given that your 6 coils are spread apart rather generously, you may consider adding more magnets to your rotor. 12 magnets would be very generous but maybe just add 1 or 2 more magnets creating an off timing effect that your spread coils may enjoy more then a sparsely timed impulse.

wattsup

E) Added: A great web site for reeds......
Nice 3-way reeds here........
http://www.meder.com/spdt-switches6.html
Check their Section entitled Reed Switch Resources.

Ad A) I saw that with my ten 1N60 germanium diodes and will check my other diodes. Important hint, thank you. Diodes for higher Amperage should have a higher reverse current. With the high impedance coils (generating a higher AC Voltage at rather low rotor turn rates) a forward Voltage of 1 Volt should not matter. To reach a 100 Volt charge in the cap like Lasersaber requires may be 1000 to 2000 rotor rpm, but 20 Volt should be possible with a few hundred rotor rpm.

Ad B) I also tried the circuit as Lasersaber describes it (pulsing positive side of the coil chain) but could not see any beneficial effect. But the effect might be smaller than my measuring precision.

Ad C) As I understand Lasersaber's videos, his 6 coil Version has all six coils in the same direction (like my replication). But his 12 coil version has them in alternating directions, and on his new 12 coil version (conical coils) he can easily change coils in order to try many combination.

Ad D) In my next version I want to have at least two different rotors and coils that can be replaced easily to try out many possibilities (different number of magnets on different rotors and different coils). If you have not yet started to build your version take that into consideration.

Ad E) I have Reed switches from Meder. Look at Lasersaber's video for optimal placement of the Reed switch, I can confirm his placement. My original placement (vertically) was also o.k. but less reliable. My early concern with Reed switch ON-time does not seem to be very important after all.

I just saw that the black relays I have chosen also come in 3600 Ohm DC resistance and even 6400 Ohm DC resistance versions (see the attached PDF files). The white relays come also in a 6400 Ohm DC resistance version (look farther down in the documents, there is a table for different versions). But the 1600 Ohm DC resistance versions should be the best ones (taking Lasersaber's build experience into consideration).

So, if you are looking for relays to take coils from them, look for 24 V relays (nominal Voltage of coil should be 24 VDC), the coil should then have a DC resistance of around 1600 Ohm.

May be one can build a 12 coil motor with 6 coils having 3600 Ohm as drive coils and 6 coils having 1600 Ohm as generator coils. But that would be much too simplistic.

Remark:

I do not want to criticise Lasersaber's way of presenting his builds, but the crucial information is the DC resistance of his coils and much mystery would have been clarified if he had given this information (which is very easy to measure) in his first video. My replication was at a loss from the beginning (with the 90 Ohm DC resistance coils). But building it helps me and others to build a new better version. So, well, everybody should do what he thinks is best. I could have waited a bit with my replication.

Lasersaber's 3D-printed motors are a very nice idea and a great implementation, so I am grateful that he shows details at all. Just with the cap, speeding up the rotor by blowing an air jet over it till the cap charges to 10 Volt or even 100V and then having it run many minutes on this charge is a nice touch. A true novelty item. I am not very optimistic that this leads to OU. But I rather try to achieve OU with µA instaed of with 1000 A. At least one can fool oneself and others more easily with µA.

Greetings, Conrad

[conradelektro]

If it is a reed switch timing issue a small bias magnet can be used on the outer end of the reed so that it only fires on the N mags. Works very well and can help fine tune the timing. Reeds are strange buggers. Here is a vid I did long time ago where using just a small drill bit I could reverse my rotor, which was a diametric neo mag. Start at 1:00 to 1:20 and then to 2:30 into the vid to get right to it. Or you can watch the whole thing. Its old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYgs7dvyZqc

One really must think about what running that motor on 1ua really means. Look at it. Watch it. See what he does with it. An LED is typically 20ma. This is 1ua. And just imagine taking it steps further.

Mags

@Mags: I just looked at your video that also shows the drill bit as a Reed switch shield. Great stuff, goes into my collection of good ideas in connection with Reed switches. I am also amazed about how far your Reed switch is away from the turning magnet in this video.

Greetings, Conrad

[conradelektro]

Might it be possible that all of that very fine wire is acting as an antenna of some sort?  Possibly capturing a little bit of all of that broadcast energy floating around out there?  It would not take much to help to charge that small cap.

I am not saying laser is doing anything untoward here, just positing a possible explanation of where some "extra" energy might be coming from.  Just a little might go a long way with his well designed rotor.

Bill

I could get some µA when placing a 10 meter long antenna near an electric 220V appliance which was on (refrigerator, heating element, coffee machine). It looks like one can drive Lasersaber's motors with that (after rectifying the small AC current). But one also needs an earth connection.

A Joule thief with a bigger air coil placed under the table could also run Lasersaber's motors via an induction loop (and rectifier). But we do not want to cheat, don't we?

Greetings, Conrad

[gyulasun]

Hi Conrad,

Basically I agree with your conclusions in your Reply #144 and Reply#162 on the operation of this setup. Regarding Lasersaber's remark in his Reply #136 (no need for a diode under 5V) I wonder if there is any need for a diode above 5V either because I think the role of the diode is played by the reed switch (a controlled switch can act as a rectifier). I say this because when the reed is ON, the induced voltage in the coils can charge the cap whenever its polarity is correct and its instanteneous amplitude is higher than that of the capacitor. And when the reed is OFF then I cannot see what or where is the load which can discharge the capacitor, perhaps the 1 picoFarad (or less) self capacitance of the open reed switch can close the circuit at the AC frequency the rotor just runs at (definitely with MegaOhm series impedance) but not DC-wise, right?

Perhaps you could run the same test you showed in your Reply #144, third scope shot, when there was no battery but you used the diode: now in the same setup if you remove the diode or just bypass it with a wire-short and see the voltage across the reed switch, using approximately the same rotor speed.  (I guess you will find more or less a similar waveform like the one across the reed in your second picture (Scope 10 Ohm Reed.png) of your reply #139 where you used no diode but you used 1V from power supply to drive the motor.)
Apart from the diode's role, I believe the basic operation is revealed by your excellent tests, at least with respect to the schematic WE believe AS is assembled by Lasersaber, because he has not given full disclosure on his actual setup. (Not that he should give, of course, and what he shared so far is certainly commendable, albeit I agree he ought to mention coil details much earlier.)

Thanks, Gyula