Double Pendulum Power

[vince]

Hi Telecom


you are right , the numbers are high but it is because it is an old motor with bad bearings and all the bearings are recycled old bearings. The motor alone draws just over 3 amps with nothing on it at all. I was just trying to show relative numbers to different situations.  The  main inference here is that the draw does not go up appreciably when loading the pendulum.

[nybtorque]

@NT

As this is your design, I do have some questions.   To design and build a proper machine that can be harnessed for testing I would appreciate your comments on the following questions.

Do the offset weights have to turn in opposite directions ( CW and CCW) I realize that they must me positioned correctly to each other to balance the centrifugal forces but can the same thing be done with them spinning in the same direction.  This would open the design up to sprockets and chains and be less dependent on gear size and weight.

Is there an optimum radius for the offset weight?

Is there an optimum radius for the inner pendulum?

Does the weight of the pendulum matter as much in a balanced system where one side offsets the other?

Do you have any thoughts on a possible generator for the system? You mention a dc motor but if it is a brushed motor it would only utilize a few bars of the commutator and their respective coils. A PM motor would be better but can it generate any real power with such little movement even though the frequency would be high. Im not sure how a conventional ac generator would react?

Thanks
Vince

@Vince


1. CCW or CW rotation doesn't matter as long as they are synchronized the right way.


2. There are no optimus radius for either of the pendulums. They do have impact on the power and amplitude on different aspects, but there is no optimization to done for other than for design reasons.


3. Larger weight gives larger output power since the centrifugal force is larger. The reason for two pendulums is to cancel out the forces that are not utilized for power and makes the machine vibrate. Basically, two pendulums gives twice the power.


4. Unfortunately I don't know enough about generators/motors to know which would be the best to utilize small angular amplitudes with hight frequence. The way I calculate it should be abie to output high voltage low current power, since voltage is correlated with acceleration and current with velocity.


Regards NT

[nybtorque]

One way to make my concept (http://www.scribd.com/doc/146232946/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator)  easier to grasp, is to think of the inner pendulum mass as in constant free fall.


It's not in free fall with the acceleration G in one direction (down...) but it's in free fall using an oscillating artificial gravity (varying in strength and direction with the frequency of oscillation) provided by the centrifugal force of the outer pendulum. And, the nice part is that this artificial gravity is free, as the system is set in rotation.


It's analogous to free fall, and as I pointed out; power has no direction.


The general critique is that if energy is taken out of the system it has to be replaced. And this certainly is valid, and applies to the kinetic energy in the system, as in friction. But kinetic energy is a function of velocity, not acceleration.


So, all we have to do, is learn how to utilize this power.


And, what do we do when we want to utilize gravity for power?


Of course we use a generator to capture it... Like in a hydropower plant. If we let the water fall with no resistance - no power, and if we build a dam - no power (but lots of static forces...) BUT, for all resistances in between we capture the potential energy as E=mgh.


The same applies in my concept because we're dealing with potential energy from artificial gravity - If the mass is fixed; only static forces, and if it is free to move (as in the double pendulum) no power... But, for all resistances in between... 


Here we even have the mass oscillating so we do not need to worry about the water getting up the hill again. Instead we get AC-power from the oscillations.


As Nicola Tesla said:

If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.

[telecom]

Hi nybtorque,
can you please post your paper as a pdf file. I have difficulty reading it on where it is now, as well as downloading.
But otherwise, very fascinated with your concept!
May be it will be beneficial to connect your oscillating ring to a pivoting arm, to increase the leverage?
Regards

[LibreEnergia]

One way to make my concept (http://www.scribd.com/doc/146232946/Double-Pendulum-Power-AC-Power-from-a-Mechanical-Oscillator)  easier to grasp, is to think of the inner pendulum mass as in constant free fall.


It's not in free fall with the acceleration G in one direction (down...) but it's in free fall using an oscillating artificial gravity (varying in strength and direction with the frequency of oscillation) provided by the centrifugal force of the outer pendulum. And, the nice part is that this artificial gravity is free, as the system is set in rotation.


It's analogous to free fall, and as I pointed out; power has no direction.


The general critique is that if energy is taken out of the system it has to be replaced. And this certainly is valid, and applies to the kinetic energy in the system, as in friction. But kinetic energy is a function of velocity, not acceleration.


So, all we have to do, is learn how to utilize this power.


And, what do we do when we want to utilize gravity for power?


Of course we use a generator to capture it... Like in a hydropower plant. If we let the water fall with no resistance - no power, and if we build a dam - no power (but lots of static forces...) BUT, for all resistances in between we capture the potential energy as E=mgh.


The same applies in my concept because we're dealing with potential energy from artificial gravity - If the mass is fixed; only static forces, and if it is free to move (as in the double pendulum) no power... But, for all resistances in between... 


Here we even have the mass oscillating so we do not need to worry about the water getting up the hill again. Instead we get AC-power from the oscillations.


As Nicola Tesla said:

You are going to find out shortly that this 'power' is simply an illusion of your flawed analysis.

Any attempt to extract it WILL slow the pendulum down. Once that happens the pendulum has less kinetic energy to exchange for potential energy and the system ends up in a lower potential state. That lower potential is subsequently exchanged for a lower amount of kinetic energy and so on oscillating back and forward until it stops. The total amount of energy that you can extract is equal to the amount of energy it was given to start.

It is ludicrous to analyse in terms of  power (the time derivative of energy) and expect that it can be magically extracted without lowering the total energy state of the system.