'Rose-Tinted Lenz' Generator...

[tim123]

Hi Gyula,
  I have some experimental results. I tested two cases, using the same magnet & (shop-bought) ferrite-core coil. Diagrams attached below.
Results measured on oscilloscope. All values are Peak-to-Peak voltages.

Case #1: Standard generator configuration - with magnet passing over the coil.
I put a lino tile (1mm) over the coil, so the magnet wouldn't stick too hard. Then just moved it back & forth as fast as I could.
Max Volts: 2.6v

Case #2: Magnet and coil stuck between two 5mm mild steel plates. A third plate is used to simulate the rotor.
I put the lino tile over the 'rotor' plate, and moved it towards & away as fast as poss...
Max Volts: 1.6v
With 2 identical coils in series between the plates, Max Volts: 2.8v

So - it's possible to get a reasonable voltage out using this arrangement. It is less than the standard config, but not by too much.

'Bucking' coils...

I got this duelling / bucking coils' business totally wrong like a muppet, lol. The two coils act just like one bigger one, and there's no positive feedback. Maybe there could be if they were in separate circuits, at different phase angles or something, I'm not sure. Maybe there is an arrangement where you can get loads to drive themselves. This isn't it though.

Cogging...

Cogging isn't too hard to overcome, and my understanding is that in theory it doesn't add much friction - as sum attraction is zero. I thought I'd mention it though. I quite like the Muller/Romero idea of simply having one extra rotor piece - but I guess it means you need a separate rectifier on each pair of coils.

I think the key to making this generator OU is to
a) minimise the flux from the coils that's 'visible' to the rotor.
b) Make use of the coil's flux to (help) drive the rotor - via a separate mechanism.

Will post more in this in a bit...

[PiCéd]

Hello tim123, uh, the voltage you have is DC or AC ?
Irons you do turn are they easier or just as easy to turn as if there was not the magnet?
Sorry for these questions, I just want to know.

[gyulasun]

Hi Tim,

It is very good you have made some tests, albeit your tests represent slightly different setups versus the ones shown in your earlier drawings attached to your 1st and 3rd posts.  I mean the stator cores in the earlier drawings go through the center of the coils and I also mean you did not have a closed magnetic circuit in your RTL-4b.gif drawing like you drew in RTL-1.gif and RTL-3.gif.
Of course this change in the setup is fine with me and positioning the coil like you did in RTL-4b.gif certainly have less mutual (two-way) flux interaction with the stator cores but what I wrote on the difficulties in causing flux change from outside in a closed magnetic circuit is still valid.

rgds, Gyula

[tim123]

Hi Gyula,
  it was a close to a complete magnetic circuit as I could get. It did run from magnet - through plates - through coil cores, although not all one piece, and did have gaps. The coil does have a ferrite core - so there is a complete circuit...

OK, here's a diagram explaining why I think this arrangement could be OU. Sorry if it just looks like a badly drawn UFO...

This shows a stator, with coil at the top, and permanent magnet below, embedded in an 'extended' laminated steel core. The core goes through the coil, down to the magnet, and out at the sides too. In this diagram the rotor goes into the page.

The part of the core right next to the magnet experiences the smallest changes in flux - because it's mostly saturated by the PM. This is where the main bit of the rotor passes by the stator. It's labelled 'Saturated Zone'.

So, the main rotor only 'sees' the flux from the PM, not the coils, because the part of the stator that it passes is always saturated by the PM.

The parts of the core at the ends experience the largest change in flux. As the coil alternately strengthens & cancels the PM's field. It's labelled 'Variable Zone'.

So at these outer edges, it should be possible to include an extra 'bit' of rotor - which should be attracted from one stator unit to the next, as the field varies. Note, this 'secondary' rotor, or 'drive' rotor part will act like a small magnet itself, and that will affect the coils a bit, but it doesn't complete any magnetic circuit, so the effect should be small.

So, while the main (central) rotor sees a constant field, the drive (outer) rotors see a pulsing field. If they can be made to be attracted enough, without affecting the coils too much, then it'll drive itself.

[tim123]

Hello tim123, uh, the voltage you have is DC or AC ?
Irons you do turn are they easier or just as easy to turn as if there was not the magnet?
Sorry for these questions, I just want to know.

Hi PiCéd,
  Voltage from coils is AC, peak to peak - measured on an oscilloscope (it measures it for me - and give me the stats).

The iron plate is strongly attracted to the magnet & other 2 plates, yes. That in itself isn't a problem though - it's just 'cogging'.