Building a self looping "SMOT"

[Newton II]

..... When a steel ball is placed between two magnets with like fields facing each other,the steel ball is pushed out of that field....

I think the above siad  principle is made use of in repulsive smot. 

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/smot/text/


Quote:


REPULSIVE SMOT

"The repulsive SMOT is some what less powerful and less popular. The ball rolls up the ramp while being attracted to the 2 rows of magnets. This causes the ball to become a magnet it self. As both sides of the ramp are of the same polarity both sides of the ball will become the same other polarity. The ball being slightly magnetized at the beginning of the ramp has 2 north poles and 2 south poles. BUT when it moves up the ramp the field intensity increases the flux grows exponential (the ball is even moving) So in stead of 4 poles the ball now becomes a magnet with only 2. This causes the attraction at one side of the ball to fail and allows for a time window where the ball may drop out of the fields"

End of quote.


I think his explanation is wrong.  4 poles cannot become 2poles.   2 like poles will be concentrated (compressed) at the  centre of the ball which will be stronger than 2 single poles on the circumferance of the ball.  Hence ball will be repelled out of ramp magnetic field.

[TinselKoala]

@tinman:
Why do the inaccuracies always go in favor of the overunity claims? Because inaccurate "results" that don't support the claims aren't reported! You and I can both point to many cases of claims of OU and poor measurements... when the measurements get better the degree of OU gets smaller and smaller, until the best measurements reveal that there was no OU there from the beginning. And the same thing has been done with SMOT ramps already. Perform accurate measurements, ensure that you are not adding any energy with Mister Hand by positioning things at the start... and the overunity measurements always..._always_... go away, disappearing into the noise.
We can also both point to many cases where JLN has "replicated" some claims and found OU. But he is still running his home and lab on the national electric grid, from nuclear power in France, the very dirtiest and unsafest form of electrical power generation there is.
Next, you are wrong about the energy used to magnetize a PM. It is quite small, compared to the energy needed to keep even a simple SMOT going for any substantial amount of time. Further, once a NdBFe magnet is magnetized, there isn't much that will demag it, other than high heat or exposure to a similarly strong demagnetizing pulse. I know of no motor that actually runs by demagnetizing its magnets. Do you?
Next, your example of replacing magnets in electric motors with iron blocks itself disproves your point. If the "extra power" was coming from the magnets, from the energy used to magnetize them, it would soon run out. I have little electric motors (in my helicopters and airplanes) that run very strongly, have done so for years, and aren't getting any weaker. The presence of the magnets is like the presence of a hard track for a runner. Put the runner on sand or mud and see how fast she runs, then put her on a solid track and compare the difference. Is the difference due to the stored energy in the track? Does the track lose its stored energy as runners run across it? No, it is because the track provides a solid surface for the runner's muscles to react against. Same with magnets in motors: without them the electric field from the coils is largely wasted.

@Chet:
Your offer of a prize as incentive to work on SMOT self-looping is done in good faith, I know... but it is a cynical and safe bet nevertheless. First.... doesn't elecar already claim to have what you are offering your prize for? Check the first page of this thread. I don't think you should offer a prize until elecar either shows that his claims are true, or withdraws them.  But regardless.... your prize money is safe. Heck, I'll even pledge ten bucks to the prize fund myself..... because I know two things: the task is impossible so the money is safe, and anything that would win the prize money is worth BILLIONS and would turn conventional physics on its head.
Your offer of a prize is going to make some people dig in even deeper, spinning their wheels, buying magnets and ramp material, wasting their time with a true obsession. Plus, there are already several large prizes out there that would easily be won by such a device. Hal Puthoff's "one watt challenge" would be easy to win, just set up your SMOT and let it run. Each cycle it will be producing some milliWatts of excess power... or it would not keep running, making little sounds and pushing air out of the way (not to mention eddy current losses, etc.) So let it run a thousand cycles: there's your one or more Watts of excess power. Stefan Hartmann's Overunity Prize would also be easy to win with a self-looping SMOT.
But it will never happen. Are any of the researchers here going to try more things, more configurations than, say, Howard Johnson did?  Finsrud has never applied for any overunity prizes with his clockwork sculpture, that should tell you something right there.

Your "beating a dead horse" cartoon is very apt, because that is just what SMOT builders are doing. Now you are offering a prize for someone to beat the dead horse back to life. It ain't gonna happen, but people will beat and beat, using bigger and more expensive clubs.... that horse is staying dead.

[ramset]

TK
I like the Drop ,{Elecar said the Noise got to him after a while] I think a trap can be set for the ball as it approaches the top of an array [MUCH higher than 35mm].

OR a high ramp which hooks straight down at the end ?

Tinsel you are not the only one who is allowed to have fun around here ,this whole concept would make a wonderful "Toy" and as you stated it would change the world.
regarding costs ? Ceramic magnets can be harvested from amy number of things for free [speakers]....

BTW The little Gift was not meant to imply anything derogatory towards you,it's just
Funny and I hope it made you laugh.

Thx
Chet

[Newton II]

.....anything that would win the prize money is worth BILLIONS and would turn conventional physics on its head......

I don't think that invention of a PMM would turn the conventional physics on its head -  It might only open a new branch in physics.  Because we have infinite number of machines infront of us which work confirming to the law of conservation of energy and laws of thermodynamics.   

If a PMM is ever invented,  it might divide conventional physics into two main branches :

1)  Systems in which energy is conserved -  Newtonian Mechanics

2)  Systems in which energy is created  -  Overunity SMOTics

[MileHigh]

Tinman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOit3ff4Hg

In the case of the ramps in the Michael Q Shaw video clip the metal balls are being drawn into an increasingly strong magnetic field as they roll up the ramp.  If there was no hole in the track the moving ball would come to a stop at the top of the track.  At that point the ball will resist moving in either direction.  That's the bottom of the magnetic potential energy well.

It doesn't even matter if you think the ball might be pushed or pulled when you look at the energy.  The only thing that counts is the magnitude and direction of the force.  They are the same in both cases and the force is always in the direction of the bottom of the well.

Look at the table example.  Imagine you have a big magnet under the table and you are looking at the trapped metal ball on the table.  The ball is at the bottom of the potential energy well caused by the magnet.  If you had a strain gauge and a setup to pull on the ball, in small steps you could measure the force x displacement required to move the ball away from the sticky spot.  You could imagine drawing concentric circles around the sticky spot.  One circle could be labeled the "One Joule" line.  That means it takes one joule of mechanical work to move the ball from the center of the sticky spot to any point on that circle.  A larger circle could be the "Two Joule" circle and so on.   Do you see what you would be doing?  You would be mapping out the magnetic potential energy well caused by the magnet under the table.

The ramp segment is fundamentally the same energy system as the magnet under the table.   In both cases the ball is drawn to the center of a magnetic potential energy well.  It's like the ball is rolling down a hill into a hole and settling at the bottom.  In this case it's an invisible "magnetic hole" but it is just as real in terms of energy analysis as a real hole.

So each track is a magnetic potential energy well that the ball "falls" into.   So that means when you get to the end of the first track, you can't just "hitch a ride" on the next track and continue moving forward.  Your starting position is at the bottom of a well.  If you are following along, you realize that your destination is another potential energy well.  In fact all four corners of a completed four-track system will be potential energy wells.  You can think of all four corners having the gravitational cricket balls.  It would be the same deal, each cricket ball in a corner would be the bottom of a gravitational potential energy well.  In simple terms, there are four sticky spots and each sticky spot pulls balls towards the center.

So think of the operation:  The ball rolls up the first ramp.  It's now supposed to "hitch a ride" on the second ramp to continue on it's journey.  You know that the second ramp is supposed to do the same thing as the first ramp.  But what many people are forgetting, is that the ball has to be pulled out of the well.  The ball is in a sticky spot and that sticky spot is very close to the ball itself, as opposed to the second ramp which wants you to keep rolling downhill into a new potential energy well.  It's not going to happen because the ball is trapped in the much closer well.

So that's why this setup will never work.  You are making the mistake of seeing a ball fall into a magnetic potential energy well and thinking that that means that magnets are a source of energy.  It's almost like seeing water fall in a power dam and thinking that gravity is the source of the energy.  The real answer of course is that the Sun is the source of energy because it lifted the water.  In cases of the these magnetic systems, it's more often "Mr. Hand" that is the source of the energy.

The thing to think about is that this example can be applied almost anywhere.  Whenever you see two magnets interacting or a magnet and metal interacting you can be conscious of the magnetic potential energy available, and where the magnetic potential energy wells are in any system.  This doesn't even have to do with the magnetic fields themselves, just the energy effects of the magnetic fields.

MileHigh