Building a self looping "SMOT"

[happyfunball]

Hi Happyfunball, I hope you do not mind me mentioning the video link that I sent you. As you saw in that video the ball did drop away from the middle of the magnet array and out of the gap that I widened and onto a track where it rolled away. In order to make that video I butchered the test track as you could see. I showed it to you purely to show that TK was absolutely wrong when he said it could not happen.
I had to use my finger to push the ball into the magnet array as I had butchered the track to show you that test. If I had posted that video I would have got nothing but abuse and an accusation that my "finger" did the work.

Please feel free to correct anything I have stated above.

I can not pretend to understand on a nano level why it works, sometimes things occur that turns traditional thinking on its head. Apparently there are two mammals that lay eggs.

I am working on using the effect on someone elses design, I am openly showing the results. I have 50mm of ground to make up and a height of 1.7mm, I am reasonably confident I will show that design also works with the effect and that it will loop, regardless, the skeptics will still find a reason as to why it is not as shown.

Sorry, I don't really follow.

There is no indication of the ball being pushed in this first video you posted, that accusation would be silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3rugO_RMg&feature=youtu.be

What would be the problem with reassembling it and simply showing the ball complete the loop and drop to the starting point

thanks

[elecar]

Sorry, I don't really follow.

There is no indication of the ball being pushed in this first video you posted, that accusation would be silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3rugO_RMg&feature=youtu.be

What would be the problem with reassembling it and simply showing the ball complete the loop and drop to the starting point

thanks

Hi happyfunball, I know that video is gravity fed, the video I sent you though required me to push the ball into the array as I had butchered the test track to show the ball dropping out through the gap I had widened. I had no other track to use so had to use the track I had, and although it fell away from the magnet array and ran away down the track from the widened hole it would not have gone back to the beginning as it would have been operating like a conventional SMOT. Where the ball would drop to a point equal to or lower than the start point.
It was only to show that the ball could escape the magnetic field when in the middle of the array. I never have claimed that the test rig would loop, it was never designed to loop, it was purely to test the concept.

[happyfunball]

Hi happyfunball, I know that video is gravity fed, the video I sent you though required me to push the ball into the array as I had butchered the test track to show the ball dropping out through the gap I had widened. I had no other track to use so had to use the track I had, and although it fell away from the magnet array and ran away down the track from the widened hole it would not have gone back to the beginning as it would have been operating like a conventional SMOT. Where the ball would drop to a point equal to or lower than the start point.
It was only to show that the ball could escape the magnetic field when in the middle of the array. I never have claimed that the test rig would loop, it was never designed to loop, it was purely to test the concept.

Ok, that's a fair reply. I know you haven't claimed it loops continuously.

But it would have been neat to see it loop once. I frankly think that's a major feat in itself.

[jdsanders]

I will list the parts I used myself, but other parts may be used.

19 mm steel ball
40 x 1" x 1.5" x  .25" C8  magnets ( I have also used neo blocks but they were harder to set correctly)
3 meters of  2.5 mm  rod/wire for track, my prototype used aluminum but copper should be fine, you may even get away with the wire from a few wire coat hangers.

Hello elecar!

Would you mind telling where you sourced your C8 magnets? I'm having trouble finding that size.

Regards,
-Joel D. Sanders

[LibreEnergia]

Quote Libre 
Quote TK


Please watch the following video, and the tests as described below. Then either retract your statement or supply the evidence that you are correct.




When you watch the video you will see clips of 3 tests. please excuse the jerry rigged set up, that is all the C8 magnets I have left after building my prototype. I would have preferred to show test 3 on a longer length of ramp, but I do not have enough spare magnets and I do not have a longer piece of aluminum track as I butchered it all for the track. Test 3 does however show how the ball can reverse under gravity in the magnetic field.

My text from page 2 of this thread.

Test 1:  The ball being released from different positions on the track  2mm - 6mm higher than the lowest point. Note how the ball always makes it to the first 2 marks when rolling under gravity regardless of where it is released from even when traveling around "friction" bend.

Test 2: Magnets in place, this test is the same as test one but with the magnets positioned to draw the ball up the ramp. Note how it makes it all the way to the "hole" no matter where the ball is released from on the same section of track as shown in test 1 Also note the ball ends higher than it starts every time.

Test 3: Magnets in place but positioned to prevent the ball making it to the hole, Note the ball loses its forward momentum and reverses under gravity whilst in the magnetic field. It does this from any position as in test 1 and test 2.


My video from page 2 of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3rugO_RMg&feature=youtu.be

Here are my observations, and why this will never self loop continuously.

With no magnet present the ball completes only part of a loop due to friction. Starting the ball higher may allow the ball to loop back via a lower path if the track was properly designed. With a small amount of friction present it may even loop for a while. This is the source of my comment 'It would work better without the magnet'.

You then introduce the magnet into the setup, and it 'apparently' performs better in that the ball is propelled further up than in the no magnet case.

However you neglect to account for the fact that you are giving the ball potential energy by moving it within the magnetic field by hand.

The extra potential energy you give it manifests itself as the kinetic energy of the ball being propelled up the ramp. (This is exactly what would happen if you did NOT have a loop and placed a ball on a straight track adjacent to one end of a magnet.)

You will note that when the magnet is in place you must take the ball from its ending position and move it AWAY from the magnet for the ball to start moving around the loop. Think about that FACT carefully as that is where the energy to propel the ball is coming from.

All you have done is use a bit of misdirection and/or fool yourself as to the possibility that this particular geometry can magically cause magnetism to become a non conservative field (i.e.  the net energy moving and object in the field around any closed path is somehow not zero.)

I don't know whether I have explained that very well but I'm sure pondering why you have to move the ball away from the magnet will give you the answer.