Building a self looping "SMOT"

[JouleSeeker]

Discussion also on another forum, Tinman notes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOit3ff4Hg

So we see clearly that the ball goes UP the ramp due to magnets then falls out the hole at the top.
Very interesting. It appears his assistant is just placing the balls on the ramp, not giving them initial velocity.

  His next vid continues the demo,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUFhv-QsDvA
This was March 2012.  Then he said he had military duty (see comments).

Up one ramp, drops out successfully, then onto and UP a second ramp.  He says wants to do four ramps in a square -- thus, a loop.

In comments, he says he is out of money (6 months ago)...  If anyone can contact him, I could provide some funding (no strings attached, to allow him to buy needed materials!)

[MileHigh]

There is no reason to fund Michael Q Shaw's YouTube project because it doesn't work.  Let's look at the reasoning.

The first thing you notice is that with two ramps. you end up way below the starting point.  If four ramps are supposed to self-loop, then they have to come back at least to the starting level over four ramps.  Since all four ramps are symmetrical, then each ramp is equal and each ramp has to do it's fair share of the "work" to create a self runner.  So after two ramps like we see in the clips, he still has to end up at the same level.   That means that you don't even have to build all four ramps to make a proof of concept.  Two ramps will suffice.  You have to have the 90 degree turn when you switch ramps.

Where he makes the mistake is that the ball drop from the first ramp to the second ramp is way too long.  You may ask why, because it looks like he has the space to move the second ramp up much higher.  That should fix the problem of the dropping level.  What he may not realize (or he may realize but he isn't telling) is that the dropping ball is the "sticky spot escape clause."  If you raise the second ramp up to solve the dropping level problem. then he mass of magnets at the end of the first ramp is going to cause a sticky spot for the launching point on the second ramp.  The ball won't race up the track anymore because the overhead magnets are too close and therefore much stronger.

So, the right angle turns will never work.  Each right angle turn will be a sticky spot and kill the process.  And again, you don't even need four ramps.  You can completely test it with two ramps.  Sometimes you need to think outside of the box.

MileHigh

[ramset]

And here I was thnking that the fact he could raise the ball from its starting point and then escape the field would just require a bit more engineering to sort out the rest?

He is showing "do work and Escape" [with something in the gravity bank].

I completely Disagree with Your "nothing to see here " Take on this MH.

But thanks anyway!

Chet

[tinman]

There is no reason to fund Michael Q Shaw's YouTube project because it doesn't work.  Let's look at the reasoning.

The first thing you notice is that with two ramps. you end up way below the starting point.  If four ramps are supposed to self-loop, then they have to come back at least to the starting level over four ramps.  Since all four ramps are symmetrical, then each ramp is equal and each ramp has to do it's fair share of the "work" to create a self runner.  So after two ramps like we see in the clips, he still has to end up at the same level.   That means that you don't even have to build all four ramps to make a proof of concept.  Two ramps will suffice.  You have to have the 90 degree turn when you switch ramps.

Where he makes the mistake is that the ball drop from the first ramp to the second ramp is way too long.  You may ask why, because it looks like he has the space to move the second ramp up much higher.  That should fix the problem of the dropping level.  What he may not realize (or he may realize but he isn't telling) is that the dropping ball is the "sticky spot escape clause."  If you raise the second ramp up to solve the dropping level problem. then he mass of magnets at the end of the first ramp is going to cause a sticky spot for the launching point on the second ramp.  The ball won't race up the track anymore because the overhead magnets are too close and therefore much stronger.

So, the right angle turns will never work.  Each right angle turn will be a sticky spot and kill the process.  And again, you don't even need four ramps.  You can completely test it with two ramps.  Sometimes you need to think outside of the box.

MileHigh

Forget about the second ramp MH.
The ball is raised in hight,and then droped again at the end. So what was it that supplied the energy required to raise the ball?. We have all seen smots that can get a steel ball to roll up hill,but the sticky spot always stops it from droping back down again. But here we have a situation where the ball can drop out at the top of the ramp.
Lets look at this scaled up-say 100 time's. We now have a device that can lift 1kg steel balls up 1 meter,and drop them on a storage shelf. So a guy at the bottom of the ramp has to lift the ball onto the track-say 100mm high. The ball then is raised up another 900mm so as another guy can roll them into position on the storage shelf.
But for arguments sake,lets say there is a 100mm drop out of the ramp,so as the ball can exscape the magnetic field at the end of the ramp(like in the video). This still leaves a lift of 800mm.
So MH,what or where did the energy come from to lift the 1kg steel balls that extra 800mm?
The ball is oviously able to escape the magnetic field at the end of the ramp,or it wouldnt have fallen in the first place.

[tinman]

And here I was thnking that the fact he could raise the ball from its starting point and then escape the field would just require a bit more engineering to sort out the rest?

He is showing "do work and Escape" [with something in the gravity bank].

I completely Disagree with Your "nothing to see here " Take on this MH.

But thanks anyway!

Chet

Absolutly correct Chet.
It takes energy to raise or lift a mass.The problem with almost all smot devices is the sticky spot at the end.It take just as much(if not more) energy to remove the ball from the sticky spot,as it would to raise it to that hight. But here we have a device that allows the ball to drop back down to it's starting hight. The release itself is proof that work was done throughout the whole process-unless some one else can show me a device that can raise and lower a mass without any energy being used?.
And they say magnets cant do useful work lol.