Building a self looping "SMOT"

[TinselKoala]

Let me put forward and example.

I see an area of improvement being the ball exiting the magnetic field.

I have found that this can be done and leave the ball at a higher velocity but I do not know the actual costs.

A level guide rail and a long pole face magnet,, and of course a steel ball.

Hold the guide level and hold the magnet up flush and level with the bottom of the guide.

Release the ball from an appropriate distance so that it is attracted into the magnet, then, at the point the ball is just before the first edge of the magnet release the other end of the magnet and allow it to drop an inch or so.

This needs to be done BEFORE the magnet is over the pole face.  The ball will exit at an increased velocity,, if it goes really fast then you let the magnet move while the ball was over the pole face and that is a cost for sure.

I am not sure that if doing it just prior to the ball reaching the pole face there is a cost or not.

Answers please.

What is the question? You have stored energy in the system by placing your ball  at " an appropriate distance so that it is attracted into the magnet". You have also stored energy by positioning the magnet so that the "other end" can be released and fall. You may have cleverly succeeded in transferring some GPE (the falling magnet end) into the velocity of the steel ball. So? There is no mechanism for gain. Look up "gauss rifle", or look at my videos concerning "nikolayev trailer hitch". Are these OU devices? They sure eject magnets fast.

And please,  take the answers and consider them, if you disagree with an answer then put forward another solution without referencing the one you do not agree with.

Huh?

[maw2432]

I don't recall ever saying "it was a fact that LENR was a fallacy,No possible source of energy."  Link please?

I have said, and will continue to say, that the experimental evidence for LENR is controversial and largely questionable, and that I think Rossi is a bigtime fraud, and that I think that Defkalion is a  money-laundering operation, also without any real system.

TK,   you are most likely right.   I have not seen any evidence of a large plant in the US making a Rossi hot water heater that runs on free energy LENR technology.    The scam is all about greed.   Some people think they can become rich by being one of the first investing in the scam technology.   
I think it is too early to judge this SMOT claim as of today.  I think we need some tests that refute his claims.
Bill

[Newton II]

32 pages and still no actual evidence of a successful self looping SMOT......

Where is elecar?  Busy in writing book on SMOT -  Elecarian Smotics?  (or Cosmetics)

[TinselKoala]

The question is if the other end of the magnet falling has a cost, there is the change in GPE of the magnet and if there is no cost then the change in GPE is reversible for the magnet.  If there is a cost of the other end of the magnet falling, not the end next to the steel ball, caused by the steel ball, then there is a cost.

This is, as I stated, what I am not sure of,, does other end of the magnet falling before the steel ball is over the pole face have a cost due to the steel ball.

It does have a cost. Think of your mechanism. It has two states, the magnet up against the track, and one end of the magnet flopped down after it falls. The initial position is the _lower_ state, the "flopped" state, where gravity has pulled the magnet down. This is the "start" position. You must raise this fallen end up and keep it in position, against gravity, somehow until you are ready for it to fall. This is stored energy that you have put into the system.
Now you bring your steel ball in and place it into the field where it will get attracted when you release it. This is also stored energy that you have put into the system, just like pulling out a spring plunger on a pinball machine. (It doesn't matter that you've brought the ball in from "infinity".... because PE is _negative_ . You are storing energy in the system by holding the ball in the attractive field.)

Now you release the ball and it's sucked toward the magnetic potential well, the "sticky spot". It gets going, converting MPE into KE as it goes. This MPE is what you stored by placing the ball. Maybe you even "pushed" the ball a little with your hand when you released it; this adds KE to the total energy of the ball, but it came from your breakfast this time. Now it's time to release the other end of the magnet. If the ball is already too close, the magnet won't drop because it's attracted to the ball, unless the magnet is really heavy. But maybe if you do it at just the right time, it swings away, and like a spring attached to the ball, maybe it pulls the ball a bit more, adding more KE to the ball. Where did this KE increment come from? It was stored in the system as GPE when you raised the magnet and latched it into position at the start. The heavier the magnet, the more stored PE... and the more you have to replace when you reset for the next _full_ cycle.

So to get a device like this to self-loop, not only do you have to arrange for the ball to come back to the start point without your assistance, you also have to raise the magnet back up and latch it into position. Maybe the first part can happen just by rolling around, and in a totally frictionless and eddy current lossless, etc. environment, it might just do that. A frictionless flywheel in vacuum can turn at a constant rate for a long time... until you put any drag on it at all, then it starts to slow down. Maybe the "boost" from the magnet end falling adds enough KE to overcome some of the rolling losses. But raising up and latching that magnet end, to reset the system for another loop,  has an inevitable cost in energy. Where does this come from? You have to put it there somehow, and whatever you put there is all you will get back.

Edit to add: The Cassini mission is one scientific mission that shows "science" understands gravity and magnetism "pretty darn well." Another great one is the Gravity Probe B experiment. Look it up! Check out its gyros, the most perfectly spherical things that humans have ever made, and how they are suspended, spun up, and how they produce data.

[TinselKoala]

TK,   you are most likely right.   I have not seen any evidence of a large plant in the US making a Rossi hot water heater that runs on free energy LENR technology.    The scam is all about greed.   Some people think they can become rich by being one of the first investing in the scam technology.   

I think it is too early to judge this SMOT claim as of today.  I think we need some tests that refute his claims.
Bill

Every failed SMOT, constructed by _believers_,  is a refutation of elecar's claims. Let him provide his evidence! It is not the responsibility of skeptics to refute a claim that is made and given without evidence!

My position is clear, at least to me.

If  a claimant wants to make a claim that goes against "conventional physics" then he/she should provide evidence that can be examined critically. If you don't provide this evidence then you should expect to be severely challenged by people like me, MileHigh, and others. No, we don't know everything but we do know some basic physics, that has never been refuted in literally hundreds of years of trying, and the claimants seem to lack this basic, unrefuted and unrefutable, knowledge a lot of the time.

If a claimant does provide evidence that supports their claims and is willing to discuss, analyze, examine, etc. in the spirit of Open Source research and development, fine, let's have at it. Anyone who knows my work knows that I will, if possible, construct and test devices according to the exact instructions from the claimant and I will report my results and conclusions willingly and for free. Generally, I report my work in "lab notebook" videos on YouTube for all to see and criticise, and I try to provide complete details so that anyone can repeat what I've done and check my work and my conclusions for themselves. Often I just illustrate things that I think are interesting, and I try to help people who have genuine questions. Sometimes a really good idea happens, like MileHigh's op-amp motor controller, which eliminates a lot of Bedini-problems but produces the same kind of HV spikes that Bedini and his fans think are so magical, and these can be used "downstream" in battery chargers, etc, just like his devices. And with the same effects, too!

Why haven't you seen my work with SMOT ramps and balls, etc? It's because I have nothing new or interesting to add. I can tell you how to make your ramps easily and cheaply, I can tell you how to measure velocities and displacements (Webby's use of shims of known thickness is a great idea) and I can tell you how to crunch your data to make it meaningful. I can challenge false claims of extreme precision when the measurements cannot be that precise, and I can even teach you how to use your oscilloscopes and other test equipment properly. What I cannot do is overcome the Laws of Thermodynamics!  And...sadly... neither can anyone else that I've seen.

Why haven't we seen elecar's demonstration of the validity of his claims? I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.


By the way, I could say, for instance, that I have an antigravity drive that works, runs by swinging a triple magnetic pendulum through a HHO gas chamber using Tesla longitudinal scalar technology, floats up by itself for hours and hours, but is too noisy to show on video. Patent Pending of course. Negotiations with a major airplane manufacturer are underway, and as soon as they cut me a check I'll reveal all to you.

What, you don't believe me?
Is it up to you, to disprove my claim? Or is it up to me, to provide evidence that supports it?