Electric Motor Geenerator/alternator looped

[Grimer]

OK, Frank, just to show you that I have "good faith".... We have no funds to operate on at all, so in lieu of you simply paying us the full amount in advance, we will need you to buy some supplies for the experiment, up front. These supplies will be returned to you... in the event of a positive result that supports your hypothesis. (You know... the hypothesis that you have still not yet explicitly stated.)


So, if you will buy one of those small "toy" coin funnels that are in the link above, and send it or cause it to be delivered to us here in South Texas, we will set it up to perform the experiment you suggest. We have the apparatus necessary to measure the velocity of the coin in both conditions: simply dropped from the start height to the exit height as the "control" condition, and the velocity of the coin exiting a hole in the side of the funnel on a horizontal (tangential) path as the experimental condition.


If you agree, let me know and I'll PM you the address details. The toy funnel costs about 25 dollars US, I think.


...

Thank you so much for agreeing to carry out the Bruce's Uncle experiment.


The easiest thing for me will to pay you the £2000 in advance and for you to make all the necessary arrangements such as choice and purchase of the vortex shaped cone, etc.


If there is money left over when you have deducted your consulting fee,
experimental work fee, materials cost and administrations costs then please give it to a charity of your choosing.


By paying you in advance I ensure that you are not out of pocket should the grim reaper come for me before the experiment is completed.


Perhaps I should explain in more detail why I want this experiment done.


As you know, there is a rumour that the Boys from Brazil have discovered gold at Sutter's Mill (metaphorically speaking). If the rumour proves to be true then in no time every Tom, Dick and Harry will be swarming all over the place. Before that happens I want to stake out the Bruce's Uncle's claim which is easier to mine than the Keenie wheel.


I'm a great believer in Nassim Nikola Taleb's "Black Swan" strategy of buying options on unlikely events. You might have even read his book "The Black Swan". I am buying an option on the unlikely event of the RAR rumour being true and the possible outcomes.


Think of it as insurance. A man goes on a dangerous skiing trip and buys 2000 quid's worth of insurance. When he gets home in one piece is he miserable? Of course not. He's delighted.


And if you find a null result I will be equally delighted that I haven't missed a once in a lifetime opportunity.


So many of my hunches have turned out to be correct over the years (the M1 and Ross-Spur motorway failures, the GRC debacle, the water vapour equations of state - even Steorn's 550 bhp motor - remember that?) that I don't want to miss out on this one.


So finally, if you agree to my above proposal where shall I send the cheque (or which Swiss Bank account shall I pay it into - only joking. I'm sure you wouldn't dream of evading income tax).


I apologise if my comment on finding your address seemed vaguely threatening. It wasn't mean to make my request into an offer you couldn't refuse though perhaps if I were you I might also have seen it in that light.


Personally I think Rosemary is a paper tiger. If she really wanted your address I'm sure she could have found it by now and arranged for the proverbial parcel bomb or equivalent - and no, I'm not trying to give her ideas.   


Cheers


Frank

[TinselKoala]

@Grimer:
No, sorry, I really can't take money from you "in advance", much as I might like to. If you really don't want to do the experiment for yourself, or have someone local do it, then pretty much the only alternative from my viewpoint is what I suggested above: a small expenditure on your part to purchase a small coin funnel and ship it to us here. This way neither one of us is "in too deep". I owe you nothing except the experiment itself, and vice versa. After the experiment is performed and written up, you then can decide whether the knowledge is worth anything to you or not.

I'm hoping to be able to save you even that small expense, and us a lot of trouble, by showing a mathematical proof that you would accept in lieu of actually performing the experiment. I have engaged consultants to help in this effort, so we shall see what they can come up with.

[sarkeizen]

I'm a great believer in Nassim Nikola Taleb's "Black Swan" strategy of buying options on unlikely events. You might have even read his book "The Black Swan".

I did, although I did throw it against the wall a few times in the process.

IIRC Taleb doesn't advocate a particular "black swan strategy".  He talks about his "barbell" strategy.  Which is more about doubting the risk evaluation of fund managers and the like.  However he doesn't really address the important point that the number of "black swans" will outnumber "safe bets" by many orders of magnitude.  So how do we decide what to invest in?

[Grimer]

@Grimer:
No, sorry, I really can't take money from you "in advance", much as I might like to. If you really don't want to do the experiment for yourself, or have someone local do it, then pretty much the only alternative from my viewpoint is what I suggested above: a small expenditure on your part to purchase a small coin funnel and ship it to us here. This way neither one of us is "in too deep". I owe you nothing except the experiment itself, and vice versa. After the experiment is performed and written up, you then can decide whether the knowledge is worth anything to you or not.

I'm hoping to be able to save you even that small expense, and us a lot of trouble, by showing a mathematical proof that you would accept in lieu of actually performing the experiment. I have engaged consultants to help in this effort, so we shall see what they can come up with.

Thank you for your prompt reply, TK
Please don't trouble with the mathematical proof. I'm only interested in the experiment


As for the funnel, choosing that must be the responsibility of the experimenter, obviously.


I'm rather flabbergasted by your scruples in not accepting the money in advance - as a sponsorship for Myth Destroying, say. You are worse than my convert father. He used to worry when he cleaned his teeth in the morning before mass that he might have swallowed some of the toothpaste and broken communion fast (those were the days  ). My mother, a continental catholic with a more realistic view of things used to have endless problems with him.


Most free energy researchers would bite my hand off for a sponsorship contribution from someone who admired their research.


Still, if 2000 is too much, how much is not too much? How much would not get you "in too deep"?


And I don't need to wait until the experiment is done to know how much it's worth to me.


The fact it is done is worth 2000 to me irrespective of its outcome.


Cheers


Frank

[TinselKoala]

@Grimer:
I hope you can agree that making a funnel from scratch is out of the question. Commercial units of the size we see in museums and malls cost more than your entire budget, usually. The only one that is at all affordable given your budget is this one:
http://www.spiralwishingwells.com/toy/index.html
I believe it is large enough to provide useful data, but I can't know that absolutely until testing has commenced, so it's somewhat of a risk.

You can purchase it on-line I think, and cause it to be sent to me. The company is located in Ohio so there won't be any Customs silliness or long shipping delays. If you actually want this to happen it is going to have to be this way. Let me know when you decide to assent; then I'll trust you enough to PM a shipping address, and you can place the order with the company, ASAP. If you write them a nice letter or phone them and tell them what you are doing, they might be interested enough to make a donation of the toy, even! (And the Moon might turn blue one day.....) Who knows.

There are at least two ways to get the coin speed data out of the system. Perhaps the very simplest would be to use a video camera and a precise clock to time, say, 5 or 10 revolutions of the coin when it is down in the neck of the funnel, at the specified height where the circumference is precisely known. This would not even require any modifications to the toy, except marking the chosen measurement level. The video isn't even necessary: the timing could be done electronically, by, eg, having the coin or ball shadow a photodetector once per revolution. Another way would be what we discussed earlier: putting a hole in the apparatus and measuring the coin's (or ball's) velocity as it "falls" horizontally out the hole. This can be done stroboscopically with the help of a camera, ruler and calculator.

You still haven't stated your testable hypothesis. I gave you one version, but we really need to agree explicitly just what the HUT is and what kind of data would either falsify or support it, before going further. One can't really design an experiment unless one knows these things. So I'd like to see your own statement of just what we are testing and how we will know what result we obtain.