Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread

[nilrehob]

Two more videos:

Watt-Meter Capacitative Load: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD02doq50lk
Luc Reactive Capacitor to Battery, no MOT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA6AQ7AGq88

I have found the manual for the watt-meter :-D
It says that it only takes measurements in quadrants 1 and 4 (consumed energy).
So if its in 2 or 3 (or very close to them I guess), it writes "err" in the "current page" and all power-related info says zero.

And some renaming of the previous three:

Watt-Meter Resistive Load: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxB9Rcs7Udw
Watt-Meter Inductive Load: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnuusKhZzO4
Luc Reactive MOT to Battery, no Capacitor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LSTBMwC_lc

/Hob

[poynt99]

Maybe consider what you're wanting to see is not correct?... I've asked other EE and they don't agree with inverting chanel 2.

Despite what Stefan says or your EE friend says, I am correct. I would bet my house on it. If your EE friend would like to discuss it, I would welcome the challenge. This is so basic, it is pitiable that no one will just look at it objectively and let the facts decide.

Have a look at the scope shots below. I've used a transformer that's not ideal for the effect, so it will use more power then it can return. The first scope shot is standard and the second is inverted.

When a circuit uses power, the math will mostly be above the Zero line, like the first scope shot. By inverting Chanel 2 you are making the math do the opposite. I think there is your problem?

When you say "circuit uses power" you should be more specific in what you mean. But if you mean everything to the right of the Grid generator, then you would be correct. The power in the dissipative elements, if measured properly is positive. Remember the mantra? Where are your probes for these two scope shots?

So, notice that the power remained essentially the same, but the polarity changed? The only problem is in the understanding of which polarity is the correct one. And since any OU claim hinges on the measured polarity, isn't it important to iron this problem out? If you agree, then please, anyone, explain how the diagrams I posted illustrating the power polarity in sources vs. loads is incorrect, or don't apply here.

Let me ask all here; in the simple diagram attached, is the computed power in VBAT and RLOAD the same polarity or opposite?

A question for Luc: please rearrange the probes in your diagram if you wanted to measure the power in your load resistor that is in series with the primary. Do you expect the power polarity to be the same as that when you measure the Grid power?

[Farmhand]

I think the things to remember about all this is that -

1) All the energy dissipated by the load is supplied by the circuit

2) All power dissipated by a load is "real power".

3) All the reactive power is a fraction of the applied power.

4) All the reactive power derives directly from the applied power.

5) Energy cannot be created.

In my opinion this is simply a matter of measurement errors.

Couple of questions I would have is that if extra energy was "supposedly" dissipated by the load then. Where does it come from ? How does it manifest ?

If extra energy is claimed to be involved then there must surely be a theory as to where it comes from, and how it manifests or is harnessed as well.

Most people reading the claim would think that somehow the circuit is able to manufacture energy.

Even if somehow the circuit did produce 10 Watts of anomalous power dissipated in the load for every say 300 Watts of applied power at a power factor of Zero can everyone do it ?

At the fraction of 10 free watts for 300 watts applied, it would mean 3000 Watts applied to get 100 Watts free. Completely unacceptable.

There doesn't seem to be any logic in it.

[forest]

By your point 5 Farmhand, it's all about the view    if it cannot be created then it cannot be destroyed either...and so on...

[dklyne]

Yes, good measurements are on the way soon.  Been a long time since i posted here on OU.  energeticforum is not talking much lately.  Stefan I should have been posting here a long time ago!
I think its too early to debate the ethics of the situation when the operating principles are still fuzzy.  We don't know what its doing to the grid yet.  I agree farm hand, especially in my case, that better measuring needs to be achieved.

I thought this was a particularly good price for three of these rigs and one PIC programmer for hall effect current sensor readings. I purchased from Cytron Technologies  Their website handled paypal, could calculate international shipping and account and invoice tracking is working on their website.  Got em on the way. 
Video of them in action.

3- SK28A     28 Pins PIC Start-up Kit     37.50
3- IC-PIC-18F2550     PIC18F2550     28.13
1- UIC00B     USB ICSP PIC Programmer V2010     18.13
3- UIC-A     ICSP Universal Socket     10.31
3- BB-ACS756     50A Current Sensor     46.88
3- DS-LCD-082A     LCD (8x2)             22.50
Total Amount  :       163.44
You save this with internet payment   :       18.16
Payable Amount  :       145.28
Shipping Fees  :      26.09
Grand Total  :       171.38