Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED

[LibreEnergia]

"Yes, they both end with same stored energy, but you're not considering Power or rate of doing work."

This statement epitomises the misunderstanding  (or perhaps ignorance) that the majority of the over-unity community appears to be suffering. It certainly seems to pervade all threads in describing mechanical or electrical free energy devices.

Power is a 'rate of change' of work or more specifically the derivative of work with respect to time. The ONLY time you can compare 'power' from the point of view of deducing if a machine produces energy is when it transitions between two identical states in a cycle AND over the same timescale. It should be obvious from that that time falls out of the equations and you are back to considering just energy.

POWER is not ENERGY... learn and understand that, then you will begin to see how ridiculous the assertions are that devices such as the ZED can produce net energy output.

[LarryC]

Larry, pressure is no measure of work or power.  I can create lots of pressure instantly without doing any work.  In column K you labeled values as Stored Energy in Ft. Lbs.  In row 8 you have a value of 329.63.  The corresponding head is 35".  The work to fill a column to 35" is:  Integral F*ds = 0.5*62.316lb/cuft*0.27816sqft*(35/12)ft² = 73.69 ft. lbs.  You've calculated a value more than four times that.  You need to calculate energy for all four parts that the drawing identifies:

I am calculating energy for all four parts, you need to learn to use the Trace Dependents and Trace Precedents button. The 35 in J8 is not used anywhere, it is a visual double check for me to make sure I set the newly added Inner and Outer riser water ht correctly so they equal the original riser heads in column C. The Inner and Outer riser water ht is used in the store energy calculation.


Never said pressure is a measure of work or power.  You would have known, I was talking about the multiple connected columns is the basis for the Zed design as I have stated many time. The PSI is used in the Risers the same as in a pneumatic cylinder and does create Work during the stroke. Getting the PSI up and down with less input volume is key to increased Power.
In the spreadsheet the volume input to get to Ready to Stroke is 22 for the Zed and 81.02 for the Archimedes and the Output Ft Lbs is 33.55% greater for the Zed. Based on the fact that it would take much longer for a pump to ready the Archimedes than for the Zed, the Zed will cycle faster. Cycle faster increases Work done over time or Power.


Misleading statements caused Librenergia to take it out context and put his big foot in his mouth, when I know just as much about work and power as most of you and apparently with better comprehension, since most of you cannot understand how the Zed works.
   

[MarkE]

Larry, I have gone through at least four spreadsheets now and none of them appear to calculate the all the energy values correctly and use those values to generate a balance.  I tell you what:  Rather than asking me to second guess what you are doing, why don't you add a couple of notes in your spreadsheet that say what you are using for what purpose, and where you draw your conclusions. 

[LibreEnergia]

Misleading statements caused Librenergia to take it out context and put his big foot in his mouth, when I know just as much about work and power as most of you and apparently with better comprehension, since most of you cannot understand how the Zed works.

Sorry. ..You have only confirmed my hypothesis.

It matters not one bit that a Zed compared with Archimedes might have different power characteristics. When you move from identical starting states to identical ending energy states only the change in energy is important, not how long it takes to transition between those two states

Consider the two statements

1. How much energy would it take to raise the Titanic from the bottom of the sea, vs
2. 'How much power would it take' to raise it.

The answer to 1 is a fixed amount irrespective of time. , The answer to 2 is 'any amount of power you happen to have available.

The ZED is no different to that scenario. Stop using power considerations to explain why the ZED 'works'. It just doesn't. Any person with even  modicum of understanding of physics or engineering understands  why.

[LarryC]

Sorry. ..You have only confirmed my hypothesis.

It matters not one bit that a Zed compared with Archimedes might have different power characteristics. When you move from identical starting states to identical ending energy states only the change in energy is important, not how long it takes to transition between those two states

Consider the two statements

1. How much energy would it take to raise the Titanic from the bottom of the sea, vs
2. 'How much power would it take' to raise it.

The answer to 1 is a fixed amount irrespective of time. , The answer to 2 is 'any amount of power you happen to have available.

The ZED is no different to that scenario. Stop using power considerations to explain why the ZED 'works'. It just doesn't. Any person with even  modicum of understanding of physics or engineering understands  why.

And you still have your foot in your mouth.


The spreadsheets have no reference to power only work. Power only came up because of a multiple connected column example that relate to the Zed that we were discussing.


Our engineers have a lot more than a modicum of knowledge and with the ability to comprehend the Zed.


You should go back and review what has been posted and than make some knowledgeable statements, instead of trying to show off with these simpleton examples.