Current ridicule

[sarkeizen]

ahh nazikrees

Who is that?

did they give you a pay raise to finally expand to bashing another message thread beside quentron?

And the MIB's gave me use of one of their nifty black SUV's - on weekends I get the helecopters.

guess you missed the 300mpg vw?

Unless you're suggesting that Ogle cheated or lied then I don't see how that applies.  The 300mpg is for a hybrid vehicle.  In which case mpg is calculated in equivalence units and it's less than half the weight Ogle reported his car to be.

scant reports of ogle?  hardly scant as there are newspapers that ran his story

I read it.   It's narrative not science.  It's pretty much unsubstantiated claims.  It's far easier to make claims and print them in newspapers.  Than it is to make something more than 100% efficient.  Ogle was probably wrong.  Why is that such a difficult claim for you?  He is human, he is flawed and very frequently his judgement sucks.

[MileHigh]

Those are classic tall tales when you talk about incredibly high gas mileages.  I assume that some people pitch kits that offer 200 mpg or more.

There is a finite amount of energy in the gas.  There are the thermodynamic efficiencies to factor in.  A given car burns power overcoming internal friction and road and air friction.

You crunch the numbers and for a given car there is an upper limint to the mpg, it's a wall.  Some people don't realize this.

Just do a "virtual crunch" in your head, simple common sense.  You can't affect the amount of energy in the gas or the thermodynamics.  There is essentially nothing you can do about the road friction.  There is not much you can do about the air friction.  So those factors define an ideal upper mpg limit.  Then you are left with the internal friction.  If you drive an "ideal car" you reach the ideal upper mpg limit.  But there is no such thing as an "ideal car."  So you can only back away from the ideal mpg limit.

[MarkE]

what's the use responding to you as anything i say you will just claim is a lie.   try google.   start with Tom Ogle and his story.  only a little over 100 mpg with a ford galaxie 4000 pound car and it's not all about running lean but what state the fuel is in before getting to the cylinders.    there are a number of 200 plus mpg cars and i just happen to know one guy out of many.   got over 10,000 miles on my mods which have seen over 75% better mpg than the manufacturer says is the best highway mpg possible.   already a high mileage car and it's still running great.   but you'll just claim everything is say is a lie.  dig deep enough and you'll find info on the air/fuel mix lies but i suspect you already know that.

If you want me to believe an improbable story then present strong evidence that the story is true.  We have piles and piles of good experimental data that establish the stoichiometric limits.  So far you have offered nothing but outrageous assertion.  As I mentioned before:  Honda makes more ICEs than any other company on the planet.  Honda has for decades researched ultra lean burn engines.  Honda's has for decades been producing lean burn engines with almost twice the power density that you claimed was only available in the good old days before some imaginary conspiracy came along to supposedly rob us of power and mileage.  So if back yard tinkerers can get 200mpg by burning gas ultra ultra lean, why doesn't Honda?  Is your thesis that they are part of a conspiracy?  Just how does that conspiracy work?  Maybe the reason that we don't have 200mpg cars has something to do with the fact that current generation ICEs are limited to a high value of ~35% chemical to mechanical efficiency.  That means that there is just over 40MJ mechanical to be had from a gallon of gas.  A typical passenger car requires about a MJ / mile at cruise.  Cars with better drag ratios, lower rolling losses, and other mechanical improvements do better.  Some old 4000 pound tank with a drag coefficient of 0.4 or higher is going to do much worse.  Even if 100% chemical to mechanical efficiency could be had, your 4000 pound Galaxy would have had to have been able to make one mile on 600kJ.  Good luck with that.

If you are actually interested in what is being done to improve fuel economy, this presentation from ORNL is a good place to start:  http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2011/wednesday/presentations/deer11_edwards.pdf

[steeltpu]

suggest you watch this video titled
1000 Miles Per Gallon sHell Research Late 70's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYyVnCeWV1A
a shell oil scientist discusses getting 149 mpg from a 1947 studebaker which is a very heavy car.   that was in the late 40's.  the book he wrote which was in the library of congress can no longer be found there.   he mentions by the late 70's getting 1000 miles per gallon.   so who are you going to believe.   the people who make many billions of dollars per year on gas sales ?   is it really in their interest to let us know how to get hundreds of mpg from a gallon of gas?   or maybe believe a few good backyard mechanics or pro mechanics who decided to tinker their way to hundreds of mpg?   also one of the people being interviewed in that video was with tom ogle on their 200 mile trip which used 2 gallons of gas - now a very old guy.   

[sarkeizen]

suggest you watch this video titled
1000 Miles Per Gallon sHell Research

I generally don't watch videos sorry.  Documentaries dispense information about seven times slower than I can read.

he mentions by the late 70's getting 1000 miles per gallon.   so who are you going to believe.

Someone who knows how to multiply.  Which apparently isn't this guy.  A 2 Ton car getting 1000 mpg of ordinary gasoline is simply wrong.

is it really in their interest to let us know how to get hundreds of mpg from a gallon of gas?

Sure.  You sell a car that gets 1000 mpg and you have an instant competitive advantage over your competition.   Even if things go back to the status quo.  There are at least fifty small manufacturers in the US alone who would love to get some free publicity and sell some cars.

or maybe believe a few good backyard mechanics or pro mechanics who decided to tinker their way to hundreds of mpg?

Tinkering is a fine hobby.  Tinkerers are sometimes useful people to hire but a backyard mechanic isn't a research scientist or statistician.  It would be wrong to trust his figures as if he/she knew how to measure things.

also one of the people being interviewed in that video was with tom ogle on their 200 mile trip which used 2 gallons of gas - now a very old guy.

Telling a very old story.  So often that he probably couldn't disbelieve it even if he wanted to.