KARPEN PILE

[profitis]

Judging from what I've seen on smaller  samples I cannot say no phill.

[Philip Hardcastle]

@profitis, what is the mechanism (please state it in some detail if you can) that you believe is responsible for the production of the emf?

[Paul-R]

@profitis, what is the mechanism (please state it in some detail if you can) that you believe is responsible for the production of the emf?

Rex Research adds more. It is said to convert ambient heat into electricity, but how gold and platinum electrodes in high purity sulphuric acid does this is anyone's guess:

http://www.rexresearch.com/karpen/karpen.htm
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[profitis]

Gas overpotential differences phillip.the rate of forward and backward reaction of gas electrochemical equilibrium eg O2 + 4H+ +4e- >< 2H2O depends on 1) the catalyst material on which it takes place and 2)the availabilty of reactants(concentrations). The catalyst material eg smooth gold is going to promote the backward reaction rate faster than sponge platinum which promotes the forward rate faster.this is due to many factors eg work function,catalyst step mechanism,adsorbtion etc.since the rate affects potential there's a different gas potential on gold than platinum.this well known as gaseous galvanic OVERPOTENTIAL or more recently UNDERPOTENTIAL depending on wether the potential is over or under the standard gas potential.so the original karpen cell is simply an oxygen overpotential differential cell.O2 passes galvanicly from one electrode to the other until potentials equalize when switch is thrown.when switch is cut the gas that was transferred simply diffuses back again.no net change after a complete cycle thus it is able to repeat with no energy expense on our part.a kelvin breach in all its glory.

[Philip Hardcastle]

@profitis
Your explanation is fine so far as it goes, but I feel that it is only an overview of the real issues.


Given that the device has been running for 50 years with no sign of corrosion, and has done a lot of useful work, I have no reason to believe it (Karpen Pile) is anything other than solid proof of some mechanism, and perhaps a Demon, but clearly it has been studied by many scientists and no concensus seems to have been reached. This makes me think that you would need to drill down an extra level to have a proof of a Demon driven by ambient thermal energy.


On the same idea as a Demon, if I play the Devil's advocate I could say it is not thermal but driven by light, do you know if tests have been made to rule out such things?


As you know the issue at stake is that of proving, either by rigorous maths, or by physical experiment, that there is asymmetry. This is the issue that almost all ideas fail on, ie the thermal ratchet of one kind or another.


So you see this (Karpen) as asymmetrical, but you have not sufficiently explained how to me, as yet, even though the idea of electro-chemical equilibrium is a good start, your 02 + 4H + 4e >< 2H2O does not have an energy term (ie ambient thermal energy input). So can you expand your explanation?


Regards Phil