Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[MileHigh]

It's incredible how if you want to believe something you can shoehorn your beliefs into your shoes until the point where they are on the edge of bursting open.

Chris, you you are just throwing everything out there except for what really counts - discuss a bar magnet itself.  Not the sun, not pictures of ferrofluid, no talk about the equator, etc.   With respect to ferrofluid, what it is showing you when it bulges up is that the ferrofluid is trying to find a spot where there is the minimum MPE, there is some GPE thrown in the balancing process, and then there is surface tension affecting all of that.   In layman's terms, when you see the spiked bulges in the ferrofluid under the influence of a magnet, it's like when you drop your umbrella on the floor.  The umbrella wants to find the lowest GPE state - so it doesn't float in the air, it doesn't fall to the floor standing on end - it falls onto the floor and lays down flat on the floor.   That's what the ferrofluid spikes are doing also - falling "down."

The is no discontinuity as you travel across the center line of a bar magnet, none!  By definition a Bloch Wall is a discontinuity.

Tinman:

the center of the magnet has both a north field and a south field

Nope, there is no such thing as the field lines switching from "north" to "south" as you cross the center of a magnet.  The field lines just have a direction.  At any point anywhere around the magnet there is a detectable field around the magnet.  The magnetic field is a vector, it has magnitude and direction.  We have simply adopted a convention for a bar magnet to designate the magnetic field as being "north" or "south."  But the truth is the only thing there is is magnitude and direction.

Take the example of Kenny and his bean sprout growing experiments.  He claimed something like seeds grown under the influence of a north field grow better than the seeds grown under the influence of a south field.  I don't think he provided any specifics beyond that but I'm not sure.

Here is the problem:  If you point the north end of a magnet at the seeds, and the magnet is under the seeds, it will be the same a pointing the south end of a magnet at the seeds when the magnet is over the seeds.

(seeds)
  N
  S

is equal to

  N
  S
(seeds)

Do you see that?  What the seeds experience is a function of the pole pointed at the seeds and the position of the magnet.  I somehow doubt that Kenny ever specified the position.

Anyway, I am not shocked about this debate with Chris because I am jaded.  But believe me, it is absolutely shocking.  It's absolutely shocking how basic scientific concepts about electricity and magnetism can be used and abused by pulp pseudoscience writers out there.  The writers can be deluded themselves, or, they are just cynical manipulators of other people in search of a dollar.

Like, what the hell was that Bedini "windmill motor" all about that was eventually sold for scrap?   The answer is that it was junk scrap from the very beginning.  It was nothing more than a prop for a conference.  And like I always say, at those conferences they will not teach you how an inductor works, and by the same token they will presumably not teach you how magnetic fields work.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Let's discuss an ideal case for an iron filings test.

In the ideal case the iron filings will not clump together.   Also, they will be fairly spread apart so that there are always big gaps with empty space between the filings.

So if you can imagine iron filings that are spread out but somehow they don't move at all, that is a near-ideal setup.

Why is this ideal?  It's because the filings will barely affect the magnetic field reluctance of the space around the magnet.  With no perceptible changes in reluctance, the field from the magnet will be undisturbed.

What is the problem when the filings clump up at the poles?   The problem is then the filings are creating their own low-reluctance path for the magnetic field of the magnet, and that will disturb the magnitude and direction of the magnetic field.

So why are the iron filings so great?   Under the influence of the magnet, they simply line themselves up with the external magnetic field.  That's all that they do.   One more time, it's the falling umbrella analogy.  The iron filings "fall" to their lowest magnetic potential energy state under the influence of the magnetic field.   Because the overall reluctance of the space is not changed by the presence of the iron flings, the filings basically do nothing except "fall."

So, you have an explanation for how the filings work, and you have the evidence right in front of your eyes.  Do you see any filings pointing towards an imaginary Bloch wall at the center of a bar magnet?  No, you don't see this, and the filings don't lie.

We understand how and why the iron filings work, and then we observe them at work.  That's the reality.

To claim that there is something wrong with using iron filings is just ridiculous.

MileHigh

[synchro1]

@MileHigh,

"There is no discontinuity as you travel across the center line of a bar magnet, none!  By definition a Bloch Wall is a discontinuity".

This is a complete and utter falsehood! What kind of perverse pleasure do you get from distorting the truth that shamelessly? You are a very mentally disturbed person who should try and get help.

[MileHigh]

@MileHigh,

"The is no discontinuity as you travel across the center line of a bar magnet, none!  By definition a Bloch Wall is a discontinuity".

This is a complete and utter falsehood! What kind of perverse pleasure do you get from disorting the truth that shamelessly? You are a very mentally disturbed person who should try and get help.

http://overunity.com/15309/reboot-is-the-delayed-lenz-effect-real-or-just-a-misunderstanding/msg428891/#msg428891

[MarkE]

As i said,your analogy is incorrect,and cannot be shown with a compass. See my modified picture below. As you can clearly see,the compass will still show exactly the same as it would in your example.The magnetic polarity of the compass needle is simply being attracted to the opposite poles of the magnet. To say that the compass needle should point toward the center of the magnet if my analogy was correct is also wrong. To what pole would the north attracting end of the needle on the compass point to,as the center of the magnet has both a north field and a south field. The field at the center of a magnet(between each pole end)is concentrated within the magnetic material it self,and only at the pole ends dose that field extend beyound the magnetic material. The field then tappers from the pole ends back into the magnetic material near the center between the two pole end's.

It is elementary that a compass follows the magnetic lines of force that it is exposed to.  In your diagram that does not happen.