Magnet Myths and Misconceptions

[tinman]

No, that's half a cycle.  The other half is heating up this steel to get back to the starting point.
For a full cycle you always have to get back to the starting point, regardless whether that point represents position, temperature, pressure, speed, flux, charge, etc...

OK,but we are talking about stored energy doing useful work as that stored energy is being disipated.

[verpies]

1-So we agree that energy cannot be created or destroyed-only transformed.

Yes, but some will argue, that it depends on how large you draw the proverbial box

2-It dose take energy to create a magnetic field.
3-All of that energy from the magnetic field is transformed when the magnetic field gives up it's energy.

Yes

We charge a capacitor,say a 10 000uf electrolitic capacitor ,and we charge it up to 12 volt's-from zero volt's-->just incase the question should arise.

1-The energy taken to charge that cap to 12 volts is more than the stored energy in that cap after it is charged to the 12 volts-correct?

No, it is the same if there was no resistance in the circuit during the charging process.

What has that extra energy (over the now stored energy in the cap) been transformed into?-heat?.

Yes and/or radio waves.

2- The cap is leaky,and the stored energy in the cap is slowly being discharged. What is the slowly discharging energy being transformed into?.

Heat in the leakage resistance....also the dielectric soak in some types of capacitors...but most of the PP pulse capacitors don't suffer from this imperfection.  Nowadays, they can be made nearly ideal.

[verpies]

OK,but we are talking about stored energy doing useful work as that stored energy is being disipated.

Yes, the stored energy (in e.g. capacitor or inductor) can do net work over non-integer number of cycles.

[tinman]

Yes
Yes and/or radio waves.

Yes, but some will say that it depends how large you draw the proverbial box

What we want to do is prove that a PM can do useful work,as most say it cant.

No, it is the same if there was no resistance in the circuit during the charging process.

This is good to know.Learn something new every day. When i heard those in the know say that charging capacitors was lossey,i thought it was to do with the capacitor itself.

Heat in the leakage resistance....also the dielectric soak in some types of capacitors...but most of the PP pulse capacitors don't suffer from this.  They are nearly ideal.

So if heat is being produced,then useful work is being done?-and the energy is not lost?

[verpies]

So if heat is being produced,then useful work is being done?-and the energy is not lost?

If you don't treat the low grade heat generated by the resistance as a loss, then you are correct.
...however entropy still increases even if energy is not being "lost".

What we want to do is prove that a PM can do useful work

I don't think that you need to prove that over non-integer number of cycles, because it is widely known that magnets can do non-zero work in that scenario.
Hoever, if you want to prove that magnets can do the same over integer number of cycles, than you are welcomed to try.