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Overunity Machines Forum



Sum of torque

Started by EOW, October 12, 2014, 05:36:02 AM

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EOW

All red disks will slow down, so like energy is (w1-w2)², energy increase. Except for 4 corners. But N can be great and there are always 4 corners. Before start, give energy for turn red disks around themselves and around green axis. After, friction is ON, this increase energy of the system.

EOW

With severals layers.

With one layer only: 4 corners give 4 torques but 4 disks at corners don't decrease their rotationnal velocity around their center of gravity.
With 2 layers only: the same for 4 next corners, previous torque are reported at this layer but 4 disks at layers one decrease rotationnal velocity =>energy is bigger
Wit 3 layers: 4 disks at corners of the second layer win energy

Etc.

R=Radius of first square layer (a side of inside square = 2R)
r= radius of red disk
F=basic force from friction
t=time

1/ With first layer only, there are:
  - 20 torques work 20*T*(w1-w2)t = 2*20*Fr*w2t = 40Fr(w1-w2)t
  - Friction 1 = 40Frw2t
  - 8 torques back (R-r)Fw1t, with R=6r for example, this give -48Frw1t+8Frw1t
  Sum = 40Fr(w1-w2)t + 40Frw2t -48Frw1t+8Frw1t = 0 so no energy from first layer if alone


2/ With second layer only, there are:
  - 28 torques work 28*T*(w1-w2)t
  - Friction 2
  - 8 torques back (R+2r-r)Fw1t
  Sum is 0 too like first layer

3/ With first AND second layers only, there are:
  - 20+28+8 torques work 52*T*(w1-w2)t = 2*56Fr(w1-w2)t so that add 16Frw1t-16Frw2t
  - Friction 1+Friction2 + 8Frw2t
  - 8 torques back (R-r)Fw1t + 8 torques back (R+2r-r)Fw1t

The difference is 16Frw1t-8Frw2t, the sum is not 0, like w1>w2, the energy is positive.

Forces on corners' s disk will receive more torque (4F), so rotationnal velocity at start must be higher for 4 corners's disk for have better efficiency.




EOW

The sum is 0:

1/ With first layer only, there are:
  - 24 torques work 24*T*(w1-w2)t = 2*24*Fr*(w1-w2)t = 48Fr(w1-w2)t
  - Friction 1 = 48Frw2t
  - 8 torques back (R)Fw1t, with R=6r for example, this give -48Frw1t


2/ With second layer only, there are:
  - 32 torques work
  - Friction 2 =  64Frw2t
  - 8 torques back (R+2r)Fw1t
  Sum is 0 too like first layer

3/ With first AND second layers only, there are:
  - 24+32+8 torques work 64*T*(w1-w2)t = 2*64Fr(w1-w2)t add 16Fr(w1-w2)t
  - Friction 1+Friction2 + 8Frw2t add 16Frw2t
  - 8 torques back (R+2r)Fw1t  + 8 torques back (R+2r)Fw1t add 16Frw1t

Sum = 0

------------------------------------ IF W2 LAYER_2 IS DIFFERENT OF W2 LAYER_1---------------------------------

Maybe if w2 layer 2 noted w2' is lower than w2 of layer 1 the sum is not 0. I will compute it. I suppose frictions are different for have the same force.

- 24+32+8 torques, Frt( 24(w1-w2)+64(w1-w2')+16(w1-w2)), don't change if w2'=w2 because force is the same and torque is apply on first layer not the second
  - Friction 1+Friction2 + 2*8Frw2t add 8Fr(w2+w2')t here friction change because it depend of w2 and w2'
  - 8 torques back (R+2r)Fw1t + 8 torques back (R+2r)Fw1t , don't change if w2' not equal to w2 because force is the same

here the difference exist it is 8Fr(w2+w2')t that can be different of 8Fr(2w2)t

Difficult to build in practice because friction must change in dymamics, corners's disks must have a friction that change for have the same force even velocity is not the same.

EOW

I compute work from torques:

    +24+32+8 torques on red disks = Frt(48(w1−w2)+64(w1−w′2)+16(w1−w2))
    Friction : +24Fr(w2+w2)t+32Fr(w′2+w′2)t+8Fr(w2+w′2)t
    -8 torques layer1 - 8 torque layer2 =−8(R+2r)Fw1t−8(R+2r)Fw1t=−8(6r+2r)Fw1t−64Frw1t=−128Frw1t

The sum of works from torque = 128Frtw1−64Frtw2−64Frtw′2+56Frtw2+72Frtw′2−128Frw1t

The sum = −8Frtw2+8Frtw′2=8Frt(w′2−w2) it's different of 0

EOW

How disks can be for have different friction.

Before t=0, an external system give energy for rotate disks around themselves and around green axis. At t=0, the external system is OFF and friction is ON. The energy must be conserved but not.