The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[Jimboot]

It seems I misread my resistor, try substituting 100 Ohm for 0.1 Ohm !! Gyula spotted it over at Energetic.

I am publicly announcing my mistake and extend an apology to you and our members alike.

#integrity #bigcahunas #respect

[MileHigh]

Grumage:

All part of the learning experience.  You will often notice similar things in free energy clips that where the consensus is that they are fake.  The person in the clip might claim 10 kilowatt output but there is no sign of a 10-kilowatt load anywhere.  Plus if there was a 10-kilowatt load it would be producing a massive amount of heat, and there is again no sense of massive heat production in the clip.

In your new clip I spotted the fact that the resistor is 100 ohms also.  I lurked elsewhere and you are in great hands with people like Gyula and Verpies among others.  It looked like you had a resistor with a two-watt rating (judging by the size) and you were dissipating four watts in the resistor and you noted that it got quite hot in a few seconds.

There is a great little exercise you can do with that resistor.  It about "calibrating" your physical senses in an attempt to get a "sixth sense" about power.  Hold the resistor tightly between thumb and forefinger.  Now your blood flow can act as the heat-removal system.  Dial up you power supply so that you dissipate one watt, then two watts, then three watts, then four watts.  For each wattage feel the heat generated for about 10 seconds or so.  It will help give you an innate sense of what a watt of thermal power represents.

The other issue that I saw coming up was about coil resistance vs. load resistance.  Of course I have mentioned this before.  There is no such thing as a "one size fits all" load resistor.  Just blindly using one-ohm and 10-ohm load resistors is not the way to go.  It would be a good learning exercise for all participants in the project because it will apply to any build that you do when you have a generator coil setup.

You have the coil resistance and the load resistance.  You have the total amount of power dissipated between the two components.  Then you have the percentage of the power dissipated in the coil resistance and the percentage of power dissipated in the load resistance.  That gives you an efficiency rating.   So is more total power at a (presumably) lower efficiency necessarily better than less total power at a (presumably) higher efficiency?  What is my ideal desire?  Presumably it would be as much total power as possible into the load resistor while dissipating the minimum possible power in the coil resistance.  But is that actually possible?  Are there some trade-offs that you have to live with?  Is a drive coil with lots of turns and a high resistance a bad thing?  Not necessarily, what if you have a requirement for a high AC voltage on the output?  Is it possible that my drive coil is simply physically too big in the sense that the magnetic field from passing rotor magnets barely affects the turns of the coil that are far away from the passing rotor magnet?  Does that possibly hamper the functioning of my very large drive coil if half of it sees "good changing flux" and the other half of it only sees "marginal changing flux?"  Would a smaller drive coil be better in some cases?  Is there a possible general rule of thumb between the size of my rotor magnets and the size of my drive coil?

My gut feeling is that all of the above is a big grey area for most of the participants in this project and for most experimenters on the forums in general.  I am past the days of being serious teacher around here and like I said you are in good hands.

But I have a suggestion for you, or for the group in general.  Whenever I try to promote a technical discussion it's a total fail so perhaps this would be something for people to pursue and study on their own.   Just pretend that you have an output coil that is 10 ohms in resistance.  Pretend that when it is in a hypothetical setup that it outputs 10 VAC when it is open circuit.  Those are your two givens.  The big question is, what happens when you try different values of load resistor?  One ohm, 0.1 ohms, 5 ohms, 10 ohms, 25 ohms, 100 ohms.

What is the total power dissipated?  What is the power dissipated in the coil vs. the load resistor?  What are the efficiencies?  What are the output voltages?  As you change the value of the load resistor are there any recognizable trends?  If you don't have any sense of this then it would be a great exercise to explore this stuff either individually or collectively.

This doesn't have to be an egghead-discussion either.  You have a coil with 10-ohms resistance, 10 VAC open-circuit.  Just pick values for the load resistance and crunch the numbers out using a calculator or a spreadsheet.  If you don't know how to crunch the numbers then figure that out first.  So you just do a brute-force analysis and look at the results you get and then draw appropriate conclusions from the data you generate.  Personally, I an done with spoon-feeding people information because it simply does not stick.  The real way to learn this stuff is to do it yourself.

It's simply wrong, completely and utterly wrong, for people to put a load resistor on a generator coil output without even thinking beforehand about what value of load resistor would be the most appropriate relative to their design goals.  You see it all the time and it is simply wrong.  Please forgive the bit of ranting but the issue is important.  If you don't even think about these issues it's like baking a cake where you could not care less about the proportions of the ingredients that go into the making of the cake!  Do you put in 1/2 cup of sugar or five cups of sugar?  It's important.

Okay I will get down from my soap box.  If you think this is a worthwhile discussion feel free to link to it on the other threads.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Grumage:

Just a few other things for you and the group to ponder.

Suppose you wind a pick-up coil with say 50 turns and you add it to your pulse motor and you get 10 volts AC out.   However, you have a design goal of getting 200 VAC out.  So what do you do?  Do you wind up another coil with 1000 turns?  What if you discover that the geometry of the coil relative to the geometry of the rotor magnets it indeed an important issue?  You realize that making a coil with 1000 turns will be a lot of work and physically too large.  Plus what about all of that extra resistance in the 1000 turns of wire?

Here is a case where very simple "thinking outside of the box" will come in very handy.  The answer is that you don't even bother to wind a new coil at all.  You are in the UK, so if you go to an electronics surplus store you will probably be able to find a nice hefty 240-to-12-volt transformer.

So the solution is to simply take your pick-up coil output and connect it to the 12-volt side of the transformer and voila you have 200 VAC on the output of the transformer.  When you do it like this it's very very safe to assume that the effective amount of wire resistance in the transformer setup will be much less than the wire resistance by making a 1000-turn coil.

One important myth to dispel is that adding more turns to your pick-up coil will allow you to output more power.  That is absolutely false.

Finally, just as a teaser, I will go back to the geometry issue again.  If the diameter of my rotor magnets is 1/4" for one setup and the diameter of my rotor magnet is 1" for another setup, does that difference in diameter have a potential impact on the ideal geometry for my pick-up coils?  The answer is of course it does.  The geometry of your pick-up coils relative to the geometry of your rotor magnets is a legitimate second-tier issue.  It not something that you necessarily have to worry about just for casual experimenting.  But certainly lining up a massive pick-up coil with a tiny rotor magnet could most certainly improved upon if your pick-up coil is more proportionally sized to the rotor magnet.  I am not going to go any further here, it's all stuff that can be researched on the web.

But if you enjoy building pulse motors then somewhere down the line this issue may crop up.  Supposing that there was a pulse motor competition where the winner is the pulse motor that is the most efficient in transferring the input power to the load resistor or resistors.  Now that would be a challenging pulse motor competition.  Choosing the optimum configuration for the pick-up coils could improve your output by a few percent.

One final comment that is somewhat interesting.  You have seen countless clips with pulse motors that have generator pick-up coils driving load resistors.  In the vast majority of these clips the builder has barely paid any attention to the value of the load resistor.  Typically the load resistor value is such that very little power is being transferred.  If the builder actually used a value of load resistor that transferred the maximum amount of power, in many cases you would hear a "Thunk! Thunk! Thunk!" and the pulse motor would quickly grind to a halt.  The thunking is the pulse of serious Lenz drag every time a rotor magnet passes a pick-up coil.  If the amount of energy drained from the rotor per "thunk" is greater than the amount of energy given to the rotor for every drive pulse, then the rotor will grind to a halt.

MileHigh

[Pirate88179]

Dear MileHigh.

Indeed, they don't !!

It seems I misread my resistor, try substituting 100 Ohm for 0.1 Ohm !! Gyula spotted it over at Energetic.

I am publicly announcing my mistake and extend an apology to you and our members alike.

Cheers from a rather red faced Grum.

Excellent that you both found this error and posted it.  This will be helping more folks lurking on here than you will know.
No apology required as we ALL make mistakes.  The integrity part comes in with what we do after we have made the mistake.

Well done.

Bill

[thngr]

But where was the error? I would like to see the error; errors are what we have learn. please put back that results, may be something good came out of it. No need for feel small we all do mistakes!