The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

eddy curents can be your best friend sometimes, especially when they help you achieve speed under load...
It is "it" that help one get the Lenz Delayed Effect so that the generator coil start to help out the drive side at a specific rpm instead of

Hi MC,

I would like to know your understanding (the mechanics) of how eddy currents assist in speed under load.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[Jimboot]

What to do???
This forum is not for the sensitive.  Many here are very intelligent and experienced and somewhat intimidating to others that may not be as well versed in some of these topics. There in lies the dilema,do we post our feeble experiments and share our poor crafstmanship and builds or do we sit back and let the experts debate the topic.  I must say that I agree that we should never make claims with no compelling proof or make outlandish statements that make us us just look silly.
In my case here I made an attempt at replicating a device and I know it is not efficient and has many faults. I did not make ANY claims only shared my observations and "asked for input". Typically we get all kinds of feedback and of course the sarcasm. 
Makes you wonder if it is worth even participating in some of these discussions!

Vince

HI Vince,
Just ignore the stuff that offends. DOn't take it personally, those guys treat everyone that way. I'm sure they're very nice people in real life

[MileHigh]

In glancing through this thread I see the notorious term "delayed Lenz effect" being mentioned.  There is no delayed Lenz effect and let's take a quick look at some of the issues involved.

For starters, the term is about the Lenz drag that a rotor experiences when a rotor magnet passes a pick-up coil that is driving a load.  If the rotor speeds up the mistaken assumption is that somehow the drag has been somehow "delayed" such that the rotor experiences less overall Lenz drag and therefore it speeds up.  Presumably nearly the same power is going into the load.  There may be other definitions or interpretations because it is a pretty loosely defined term but let's just use that one for this discussion.

Let's start with some basics like the idea of somehow "cheating Lenz."   Everybody knows that if you hold opposing North-North bar magnets in your hands that there is repulsion.  I don't think anybody would argue that you can "cheat" for this example.  Common sense tells you that opposing magnets repel and there is nothing that is ever going to change that.  So what about the case when a rotor magnet passes by a pick-up coil driving a load resistor?  We all know that current will flow in the coil.  Therefore the pick-up coil itself becomes an electromagnet.   So a spinning rotor magnet with the North facing out will see a Noth pole from an electromagnet (the pick-up coil) as it approaches causing Lenz drag.   When the rotor magnet leaves it will see a South pole electromagnet causing Lenz drag.  There is no way that the rotor magnet will interact in some kind of different way with the pick-up coil which is simply acting as an electromagnet.

If you can't "cheat" the repulsion force between two opposing magnets, by the same token you can't cheat the repulsion force between a magnet and an electromagnet.  If you want to drive a load with your pick-up coil, by definition current has to flow into the load, and therefore by definition the pick-up coil will become an electromagnet that opposes the movement of the spinning rotor magnet.  Therefore, there is no point in searching for an assumed "workaround" or "cheat" or "attempt to delay" the Lenz drag that the rotor magnet will experience.

So what is really happening?   A typical example is where the pick-up coil is shorted out and the rotor spins at say 500 RPM.   Then you attach a load resistor to the pick-up coil and you observe the rotor speed increase to say 800 RPM.  Voila, there is your magic "delayed Lenz effect" - you went from a "no load" condition to a "load" condition and the rotor speeded up.

What's really happening is that you are failing to make proper measurements.  When the coil is shorted out, current circulates through the resistive wire of the coil and that is a load.   When you attach a load resistor to the coil, now the load has changed to the wire resistance plus the load resistor.

Now, in both cases above you can add a small current sensing resistor and measure the RMS voltage across the current sensing resistor.  Then you can calculate the power dissipation in the coil for both cases.

Here is the "surprise":   When you add the load resistor, LESS power is dissipated in the (coil + load resistor) as compared to the coil only.   That is the reason the rotor increases in RPM.

You can see how ironic the whole thing is.   Somebody says, "Wow, I add a load resistor and I increase my output power and the rotor speeds up!  You don't see this in the 'science books.'  This is outside of normal electronics."   

The experimenter thinks that his "rotor is speeding up under load" when in fact the TRUTH is that the rotor is speeding up because you are REDUCING the load on the rotor.  In other words, what is being observed is making perfect sense.  Nothing out of the ordinary is taking place.

Now, when you see people playing with pulse motors and spinning magnets on rotors driving pick-up coils, how often do you see someone attempting to measure the power dissipated in the pick-up coil itself?   The answer is almost never, and that is the root of the problem.  You cannot take anything for granted.  You have to make proper measurements.  In cases like this, all that you really need is a half-decent true-RMS multimeter and you can make the required measurements.

The term "delayed Lenz effect" is false, it doesn't even exist.  It's been around for a couple of years and it results in people leading themselves down a garden path.

MileHigh

[T-1000]

The term "delayed Lenz effect" is false, it doesn't even exist.  It's been around for a couple of years and it results in people leading themselves down a garden path.

This assumption comes from misunderstanding on how quickly coil reacts to magnetic impulse given. Obviously the longer wire the bigger inductance is and due that fact the slower coil response is. We are talking about range from microseconds to milliseconds and when proper conditions are met with magnet passing by the coil quicker than it can react with current the speedup under load/short circuit effect manifests.

Just the problem root cause is not how we can circumvent Lenz force itself. Usually in generators you get at least three phase system which contains sets of coils around of ring. If they are all arranged to get magnetic field change at the same time the drag will be biggest (this is what is in conventional generator design). But if you arrange them to get magnetic flux change in series the entire picture changes with resulting lowest drag with price of lowest power output. In that case it is becoming obvious how the drag can be manipulated. To dig in even further the problem source is single static magnetic pole passing by coil which creates alternating magnet by induction. So you have repulsion when it approaches coil which is against movement and attraction when magnet leaves coil which is against movement again. For a child who knows nothing about physics the logical question would occur - what will happen if we can change magnet polarity as it moves and have its one polarity when magnet is approaching coil then start flipping polarity when magnet starts leaving coil? The answer will be quite simple: in that scenario you have repulsion when magnet approaches coil with force opposing movement and will have repulsion with force helping movement when it leaves coil due fact the opposite magnetic field increase on leaving moment. And here most important part occurs: since you can have this arrangement when there are multiple coils getting polarity change in series to each other the one of things can happen - when magnet is approaching one coil and other magnet is leaving another coil at the same time the summary net kinetic force of repulsion around a ring becomes zero. So here is one of solutions how to solve drag issue caused by Lenz force...

[shylo]

Delayed Lenz is a good analogy , You can't eliminate it but redirect it. Use it to spike another coil ,collect the output and put it back in.
When you feed power to a coil it creates the magnetic field. If I pass a magnet past a coil it creates a magnetic field .
What happens when you pass a magnet past a coil at the same time you pulse it?
artv