T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force

[vineet_kiran]

@OUG


There are two things you may have to consider in that spiral arrangement :


1)  Since centrifugal force acts radially,  the water may not come out of spiral end with full force   energy.

2)  Since mass of water comes out tangentially from spiral end,  it automatically pushes back the spiral  by 'nozzle' effect,  thereby applying
     slowing down force.  (just like gases coming out of rocket  push the rocket up)


      What do you think?

[Overunityguide]

1) When the spiral is being rotated the water is pushed out under an inclined angle. The total water volume will also be bigger, because the spiral can be made longer than a single arm of the T-(Shape)
2) I think you suppose the spiral to rotate counter clockwise? But it is supposed to rotate clockwise. So it could actually help rotating.

I still think the T-(Shaped) Structure equipped with two turbines should work. By making use of two Pelton Turbines. (No Francis) This because a Pelton Turbine runs under High Pressure and Low Flow Rates. So if we can keep the Flow Rates low, the Coriolis Effect will also be relatively small.

But I still plan to de some testing with the Spiral-(Shaped) Arrangement, Just for fun. Thanks

[mihai.isteniuc]

Hi OUG,

Gratz for your idea. I believe is a great an unique one. U make me log to OU site after a very long time to comment it.

Yes indeed Coriolis force was something to be expected to appear. No surprises here.

My first question is: How much does this force affect the system? I'll start experimenting with a simple motor (DC one if possible so no reactive power will be involved).

1. For a given rpm (u choose one) of the system without any water flow (just vertical pipe in water), how much power (or if u wish energy) do u need to make it spin?
2. How much energy do u need to make it spin with the same rpm but with the pipes full of water, but no water flow (fill the pipes with water and then seal them)?
3. How much energy u need to achieve same rpm but with water flow now?

Also I agree that an impulse turbine (aka Pelton) should be used to minimize the Coriolis effect. That is in direct relation with the water flow. Question: Increasing the cross section of horizontal pipes can help? (aka make the flow rate smaller).

I also agree that the "T-shape" must be modified to minimize Coriolis force as u describe it, but I don't believe your spiral is the good direction.

In my opinion the real flow shape of the water (including Coriolis) it's more like an "S", so the pipes should be also like an "S" linked in the middle of the S with the vertical pipe (well S is an approximation, didn't really mean that, but is the closest letter i could find to better describe the shape of horizontal pipes, and if we keep this " S" as convention the system should rotate of course, counterclockwise). Keep that in mind that the rpm of the entire built and the speed of the water flow inside the horizontal pipes can be calculated or u can determinate them experimental. With this 2 in your pocket u can easily determine then the 3rd resultant force => Coriolis, as value, direction and trajectory. This trajectory should be the shape that horizontal pipe should have it. Any variation on the input data, means that the trajectory of Coriolis will be different aka new design on horizontal pipes. I hope I'm not wrong with this one.

I keep my fingers cross and waiting for more info from u. I'm sorry i can't right now do testing side by side with u and compare results. I hope in the future I will ...

PS English is not my native language so please excuse me if i sound strange some time.

Good luck,

Mihai

[Overunityguide]

Hi All,

I have Uploaded my New Video about the Spiral-(Shaped) Turbine Test Setup. But mind you, I think I was a Bit Too Enthusiast while Recording. I say this because there is less friction encountered indeed. But because of the Spiral like structure, there was also a-lot less water coming out of it. (compared to the T-(Shaped) Turbine version) This can be explained by the fact, that for now, the water is acting almost only radially. Because of this, there is a-lot less Centrifugal Force acting upon the Water...

http://youtu.be/JFgYYj9Z_VA

I personally Think that OU User 'mihai.isteniuc' is right about finding an optimum design like an S-(Shaped) Turbine structure (I will come back on your questions, just need some time to test) So with an S Like structure the centrifugal force is still acting upon the water, but it is also canceling out a bit of the (counter) acting Coriolis Force.

But one important discovery so far is that High Pressure / Low Flow Rate works the best for the T/S-(Shaped) Like Turbine Structure! So two Pelton (impulse) Turbines are the preferred choice

[vineet_kiran]

@OUG


Can you please try your first experiment with 'T' turbine again,  this time filling the 'T'  with sponge?   Sponge being flexible material may absorb the coriolis force hence you may not feel much resistance against rotation.  You may have to fill the sponge slightly loose fit.

Of course water discharge will be reduced due to presence of sponge but I think it is still worth a try!