Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

@Tinman - Nice video!

A Good explanation! Thanks!

So, why do you think the Vrms is higher on the Inner Secondary?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Who is the Pork Chop that down voted Tinman? You Goon!

I get them now on all my video's-the regular 2 or 3. There just the guys that dont have the balls to leave a comment as to why they did not like the video,or dont have anything else better to do. I dont give thumbs down much credit these days.

I would like to see input coil Current through a CSR. Loaded/Unloaded?

No you wouldnt 

[hoptoad]

snip...
No you wouldnt 

I'd like to see input current too. And output current. Irrespective, its an interesting transformer. Certainly not your run of the mill characteristics.

[poynt99]

Inductance
Primary and outer secondary-=29.8mH
Inner secondary= 93.2mH

Resistance
Primary and outer secondary=1.6 ohms
Inner secondary=.7 ohms

Hope this helps.

[partzman]

I would have thought that the inner secondary would have the highest inductance,as the whole of the winding is encased in core material,while the outer two windings are wrapped around the outside of the core material-and in this case,not that tightly or neat.

Indeed i have. Here are all the winding measurements/values

Inductance
Primary and outer secondary-=29.8mH
Inner secondary= 93.2mH

Resistance
Primary and outer secondary=1.6 ohms
Inner secondary=.7 ohms

Capacitance between windings
Between primary and outer secondary= .68nF
Between primary and inner secondary= .31nF
Between outer and inner secondary= .31nF

Hope this helps.

First, nice job with the video.

Yes the inductance and capacitance measurements do help.  What is initially glaring to me is the large inner secondary inductance verses the outer primary.  The square root of the ratio is 1.77 but does not fully account for the apparent 2:1 voltage ratio for these windings.

If and when you have time, would you mind taking inductance measurements of the primary and inner secondary as I've indicated in the attached schematic? The shorted secondary test is redundant to the calculations that will be derived from your measurements, but will be a good comparison to possibly reveal any anomaly in this area.

partzman

[MileHigh]

It's an interesting puzzle as to the what and why for this device.  So the thing to do for me is to speculate, and even if some of the speculations are wrong, it still helps.  It's easy to trip yourself up and simply not account for or misapply the basic fundamentals in unusual configurations (for me at least), but hopefully with a couple of iterations you find the solution at the end.

Why should the inner secondary show three times the inductance of the outer coils?   They are all the same number of turns, and the amount of core material is not supposed to make a difference in the inductance measurement when there is no saturation taking place.  When you factor in the coil cross-sectional area, the outer coils are "supposed" to measure a higher inductance than the inner coil for the same number of turns.  Certainly there is no saturation taking place when you use an inductance meter.   Also, the 3:1 ratio is unusual, where is that coming from?

So why is this happening?

Suppose that you energize the inner secondary with AC using your function generator.  I think that in this case the inner core will circulate flux in the opposite direction as the outer core.  So the inner coil will have two complimentary magnetic circuits, or cores, with flux flowing in opposite directions.  This is fine because to "add up" in this case the flux is supposed to be flowing in opposite directions.

Now look at what the primary and the outer secondary will see.   It should be very little or almost nothing because these coils will see two cores with flux, but from their perspective the flux is flowing in opposite directions and therefore they will see very little net AC flux and have a very low or near zero voltage output.  It all depends on how much flux is flowing in the inner core vs. the outer core.

If this is true then this might give insight into the differing inductance measurements.

When you measure the inductance of the inner coil, the inner core and the outer core compliment each other and for all practical intents and purposes it seems to look like a regular solid core with a single outer coil wrapped around it.  I am not sure about the effective cross-sectional area here to determine the inductance, but I will assume that it is the cross-sectional area of the inner coil itself.

However, when you measure the outer coil, it looks to me like the inner core is working against the inductance measurement.  For example, if you had just an outer core and no inner core at all, then the toroidal core would be "normal" except for the fact that it had a hollow center.  In this case you the inductance measurement for an outer coil would be the same (or actually larger because of the larger cross-sectional areas of the outer coils) as was measured for the inner coil for the actual device.

So what happens when you add the inner core?  Now I am back to my Lenz's Law angle.   If you are energizing one of the outer coils to make an inductance measurement, when flux flows clockwise in the outer core, the inner core doesn't just sit there like a dead log.  The inner core will have flux flowing counter-clockwise because of Lenz's Law.

So I am speculating that the AC flux that is flowing in the inner core acts as a "drag" on the AC flux that is flowing in the outer core when you are making an inductance measurement on one of the outer coils.  This reduces the inductance measurement by two-thirds.

Even if these speculations are true or partly true, I still can't explain why the inner secondary has a higher power output than the outer secondary.

Finally, if you put AC into the outer primary, and the inner core does have an opposite flux flow as per my comments above, then the output from the inner secondary would be 180 degrees out of phase compared to the "expected" phase.  Careful checking of the phase on the inner secondary would be a worthwhile thing to do.