Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[tinman]

Tinman,

Have you checked your scope probe compensation since you began working at higher frequencies?

I assume you are using 10X probes.  A minor misadjustment of your probes' compensation caps can present significant errors at HF.

Before adjusting them, consider simultaneously connecting both probes to your FG output and check that you get the same measurement from both probes/channels in the 1-10MHz range you've been working at.

If they measure the same and with a flat response, your golden, if not, you'll likely have to tweak the compensation caps.   

PW

At 10 MHz,and FG set to 20 VPP, both channels read the same,but at 20MHz i get a 4mV difference where channel 1 reads the higher RMS value by the 4mV.

[seychelles]

hi tinman sorry to say but you are dealing with WHITE MANS MAGIC  now . i was a
rf tech with motorola COMMUNICATION in melbourne about 20 years ago
and when you start dealing with MEGA HERTZ  one has to be very careful with measurements.
for example  i was tuning and testing a uhf syntrx transceiver for the police and  only on
one channel the receiver was deaf that is no reception, the problem was that there was
an other oscillator for the  encryption board which was generating harmonics on the 12
th harmonic of the rx freq..

[tinman]

hi tinman sorry to say but you are dealing with WHITE MANS MAGIC  now . i was a
rf tech with motorola COMMUNICATION in melbourne about 20 years ago
and when you start dealing with MEGA HERTZ  one has to be very careful with measurements.
for example  i was tuning and testing a uhf syntrx transceiver for the police and  only on
one channel the receiver was deaf that is no reception, the problem was that there was
an other oscillator for the  encryption board which was generating harmonics on the 12
th harmonic of the rx freq..

Well its a good thing we are not trying to measure radio wave's

[MileHigh]

MH
You have lost me,and your statement makes no sense.
How can i see any wave forms before i connect the probe's to the CVR ?

My conclusion.
If we take into account any losses there may be in the FG's cable,then the voltages at the FG's output should have been higher than those seen at the end of the FG's cable. As the voltages seen at the end of the FG's cable across the CVR were higher than the voltages seen across the CVR when the CVR was directly at the FG's output jack,then that is telling me !once again! that more power is being produced at the HTT than the FG is delivering. This once again shows a negative resistive effect.

Look at the attached diagram again.  Does it make sense now when I requested that you verified the "negative resistance" waveforms (probes connected to the blue and yellow test points) before you then moved the probes to the "new" one-ohm CVR to check the power flow?

Also, was your scope not able to display a (Ch1 - Ch2) waveform at whatever vertical gain you wanted?

Personally, I think your conclusion is overly optimistic.   I see two waveforms that are nearly identical.  Why the peaks are at a slight difference in amplitude is undetermined for me right now.  If you had the (Ch1 - Ch2) math trace set up it might be possible to discern more information.  What I am asking myself is if the voltage differential between the two channels is at the peaks only.  It it was at the peaks only, I would suspect some unexplained signal artifact causing that.   I suspect that with a clean high-gain version of (Ch1 - Ch2) you would see the 90-degree phase shift signature of an inductive load.

In summary, it looks to me like your device is acting like a high-impedance inductor - a choke - at the 3.62 MHz excitation frequency.  The waveforms appear to be nearly identical showing that very very little current is flowing across the current sensing resistor and thus very little power is moving.   If I was going to be conservative I would say that it looks like your device is acting like a coil and very close to an open circuit.  So I don't see anything convincing indicating that there is a "negative resistance" effect taking place.

MileHigh

[tinman]

MileHigh

Look at the attached diagram again.  Does it make sense now when I requested that you verified the "negative resistance" waveforms (probes connected to the blue and yellow test points) before you then moved the probes to the "new" one-ohm CVR to check the power flow?

Yes,and that is what i did.

Also, was your scope not able to display a (Ch1 - Ch2) waveform at whatever vertical gain you wanted?

As far as i can work out,the only way to set and see A - B is by way of the math function.

Personally, I think your conclusion is overly optimistic.   I see two waveforms that are nearly identical.  Why the peaks are at a slight difference in amplitude is undetermined for me right now.  If you had the (Ch1 - Ch2) math trace set up it might be possible to discern more information.

Yes the math trace tells all,and presents much the same result regardless of where the CVR is.

What I am asking myself is if the voltage differential between the two channels is at the peaks only.  It it was at the peaks only, I would suspect some unexplained signal artifact causing that.   I suspect that with a clean high-gain version of (Ch1 - Ch2) you would see the 90-degree phase shift signature of an inductive load.

I will make a video showing you what happens when the math trace is used-->but that will be done when im feeling better,as im not so good ATM.

In summary, it looks to me like your device is acting like a high-impedance inductor - a choke - at the 3.62 MHz excitation frequency.  The waveforms appear to be nearly identical showing that very very little current is flowing across the current sensing resistor and thus very little power is moving.   If I was going to be conservative I would say that it looks like your device is acting like a coil and very close to an open circuit.  So I don't see anything convincing indicating that there is a "negative resistance" effect taking place.

You do remember me saying(some pages back) that all my test's are being done with a 10 ohm load on the inner secondary,and at 3.6MHz,it is disipating 9mW of power across it 
So if as you say-no or little power is being consumed,then where is the 9mW coming from.?.

Anyway,im sure we will get to the bottom of it MH,and thanks for all your help so far.

Brad