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Overunity Machines Forum



Open Systems

Started by allcanadian, January 25, 2015, 09:23:46 AM

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MarkE

Quote from: LibreEnergia on February 04, 2015, 03:43:29 PM
I don't think I have ever used psi to measure pressure.

Back when I learned engineering the measurement of pressure was "force per unit area". The basic unit in the SI system is the 'Pascal' which is equal to a force of 1 newton per square metre. I realise America is somewhat late to the party but your comment shows extraordinary ignorance for someone who claims to be an engineer.

Now... back to the explanation of why heat and work are convertible and why heat increases when you compress gas, on which you still hold mistaken conclusions. 

Thermal energy is the sum of all the kinetic energies of all the particles in the system. When that energy flows between two bodies we call it heat transfer. It is distinct from temperature which is a measure of the potential for heat to flow from one body to another.

To understand why doing work increases the amount of thermal energy in a system and hence the ability to transfer heat, imagine what would happen if we compressed a gas in a cylinder at very high speed, close the actual velocity of the particles in it. In air that would be around 900 km/hr.  or approx. the speed of sound.

The piston would then be striking the particles much faster than they normally impact it. That collision imparts a force on the particles and causes their velocity to increase. How could it not..? unless you want to argue the toss on newton's laws of motion.

Since the particles have been accelerated the internal thermal energy increases as it is simply the sum of the kinetic energies of all the particles. Internal energy is increased. The ability is transfer heat is increased.

Of course, the same process occurs at any speed of compression, but it useful to imagine a piston advancing into a gas at high speed to get an intuitive feel for why the velocity and hence 'heat' of those particles increases.
I can't fault Tinman for using PSI as his preferred unit of pressure.  FWIW he is in Australia.

LibreEnergia

Quote from: profitis on February 04, 2015, 04:15:30 PM
Libre says:  'I'm sure there are much better refrigerants than 'HH0', which
doesn't actually exist in that form anyway. The gas is H2 and O2
and it combines back to H20.  Since that process is at most 70%
efficient for a round trip then you'd be far better off using
something else as the working fluid.
Like ammonia etc'

I say: or a singular gas eg h2 alone.at low currents.then we can push it up to 95% reversability and fall within the window of gainland

95% is not a gain, and it never will be. Why complicate the phase change mechanism when simpler candidates for it already exist.

The overall thermodynamic efficiency will still be constrained by Carnot as well.

profitis

Libre :'95% is not a gain, and it never will be.'

Me: correct.which is where the environment's contributi takes over.over that line.

LibreEnergia

Quote from: profitis on February 04, 2015, 04:32:15 PM
Libre :'95% is not a gain, and it never will be.'

Me: correct.which is where the environment's contributi takes over.over that line.

Like a heat pump you mean...? we've had them for a while. They are not over-unity devices.

If you think they possibly can be go back to the explanation of why the heat in a gas increases when it is compressed, and realise you are mistaken.

profitis

Libre:'Like a heat pump you mean...?'

Me: no ordinary heat-pump no.this one can be special