A Practical Guide to ‘Free-Energy’ Devices

[LibreEnergia]

Hi TinselKoala,

I have a question which you perhaps could kindly answer:

before rain fall, water vapor condenses and same amount energy which was used to evaporate water is released, isn't it ? Why we need Sun for this process ?

Thanks,
Vasik

The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.

This transport of air carries  water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.

The heating and heat release don't necessarily occur in the same location. We feel that effect as wind.

 

[TinselKoala]

Hi TinselKoala,

I have a question which you perhaps could kindly answer:

before rain fall, water vapor condenses and same amount energy which was used to evaporate water is released, isn't it ? Why we need Sun for this process ?

Thanks,
Vasik

If you are referring to hydroelectric dams, you left something out: the raising up of the water vapor before it condenses out over the mountains and hills which drain into the reservoir behind the dam. This requires weather, which is also driven by the sun.

If you are referring to, say, steam engines, you don't need the sun, but you do need some other energy source. You are perfectly correct that the phase-change process is energy-neutral. Good luck doing it without losses that need to be made up from outside, and good luck taking work out of the system... which will also need to be made up by supplying energy from outside.

[TinselKoala]

The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.

This transport of air carries  water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.

Actually only partially true. Building cumulus clouds and thunderstorms and other heavy weather are indeed driven by the reinforced convection caused by the release of the latent heat of evaporation when the water vapor condenses. It all depends on the local "adiabatic lapse rate" which is the rate at which the air cools off with increasing altitude due to the change in pressure. If the actual surrounding air cools at a greater rate than the adiabatic lapse rate, then a rising parcel of air, which cools naturally at that rate as its pressure drops, becomes increasingly warmer than the surrounding air as it rises. When the parcel cools to the point at which condensation begins, the release of energy causes the parcel to be that much warmer than the air around it so its rise actually can accelerate.

The heating and heat release don't necessarily occur in the same location. We feel that effect as wind.

[profitis]

 Quote from: LibreEnergia on January 27, 2015, 11:17:15 PM ---
The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.

This transport of air carries  water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.

--- End quote ---

Actually all this activity is rather negentropic.you have a large ball(planet earth) shoved infront a massive torch(the sun) and all these intricate little patterns forming including life itself.

[LibreEnergia]

Actually only partially true. Building cumulus clouds and thunderstorms and other heavy weather are indeed driven by the reinforced convection caused by the release of the latent heat of evaporation when the water vapor condenses. It all depends on the local "adiabatic lapse rate" which is the rate at which the air cools off with increasing altitude due to the change in pressure. If the actual surrounding air cools at a greater rate than the adiabatic lapse rate, then a rising parcel of air, which cools naturally at that rate as its pressure drops, becomes increasingly warmer than the surrounding air as it rises. When the parcel cools to the point at which condensation begins, the release of energy causes the parcel to be that much warmer than the air around it so its rise actually can accelerate.

Quite so, I've utilized this effect many times on my paraglider... Climbing at over a 1000 feet a minute without an engine, you really get to appreciate the 'free energy' available in the atmosphere.

I was referring to the cumulative effect of heat transfer from bottom to top that eventually nullifies the convection by dropping the environment lapse rate below the adiabatic lapse rate.