Overunity motor, part3, all 4 recharging bats reading at 1.400 volts now.

[MileHigh]

Sm0ky2:

TK makes a great demonstration of this effect in his video, using a fairly accurate signal generator, and his O-scope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ZN5QJZClY

as you can see here, this greatly alters the effect of the induction through the secondary coil, which will increase the efficiency of your joule thief circuit. 
This is how a JT circuit was intended to be used.

Unfortunately you are off base one more time.  You are seemingly blindly applying one thing to something else when it does not jive - it does not make any sense.

TK is looking for the self-resonant frequency for a stand alone coil.  He is making "a mistake" by using a square wave but the test still works.

Going back to the subject at hand:  Big deal.  You are talking about a Joule Thief, not a stand-alone inductor.  You have to understand that they are not the same thing.  In addition, your "logic" is crap.  You are saying, "Look, an inductor has a self-resonant frequency and that makes a Joule Thief work better."  Really?  Really?  Where is big missing gap in your explanation that is not there?  How do you jump from point A to point B?

You are simply showing classic nonsensical "failure mode logic" that you see on the forums all the time.  The truth is that for years the Joule Thief threads were low tech and people were just doing stuff by trial and error and finding solutions without understanding them.  With fairly high confidence I can state that all the talk of "resonance" was no different than everybody making references to resonance on every second thread without even knowing what they were meaning.

So it comes back to you:  Show two timing diagrams for a Joule Thief, one without resonance, and one with resonance, and explain what is going on and explain the advantage of the setup with resonance.  You are going to have a real hard time showing the timing diagram with resonance because it doesn't exist.

I have an interesting factoid for you that I alluded to earlier:  When a coil hits its self-resonant frequency for all practical intents and purposes it is "crapping out" and failing to do its job.  Electronics designers make sure that their designs do not get close to the self-resonant frequencies of their coils because that will screw up their circuit.

You have read a lot of BS about Joule Thieves and resonance and believed it.  The simple fact is that it is a BS concept.  If you disagree then prove me wrong with a set of fully explained timing diagrams and a circuit.  And that apparently is what you can't do.

MileHigh

[MarkE]

Well... hmm.

So I built the LidMotor version from MarkE's redrawn diagram above. I wound two toroidal inductors to measure 1.0 mH each on my ProsKit meter; this required 32 turns of #33 on each toroid. I used a BC337-25 transistor as I do not have any MPSA06 on hand. A blue LED, a 1n4004 diode and a 220 ohm resistor completed the circuit. I used two depleted batteries for power instead of supercaps. The circuit needs to be "tickled" to get it started, and I found the easiest way is to tickle the cathode of the LED with a little piece of solder. The collector of the transistor also is a good place to "tickle" to start oscillation. I could not get it to stay on with a Red LED, just single flashes when tickled but no sustained oscillation. It works with Blue LED just fine. Have not tried other colors.

My impression is that the circuit does _NOT_ appear to work by coupling between the inductors! At least, moving or reorienting the L1 inductor appears to make no difference in behaviour of the circuit in terms of startup or LED brightness. I have not yet scoped the circuit.

(I'm still waiting for the "friend-funded" Rigol scope to arrive. Supposedly things have been delayed by the Longshoreman's strike on the West Coast container ports and it is not expected to get to me until the first week of April sometime.)

ETA: It still works with the L1 inductor 2 feet away connected by a twisted pair to the solder pads. Still needs to be tickled to start but once it starts, LED brightness, etc. is unchanged from the previous test.

Those results suggest that the LED damps the oscillation.  That in turn does suggest that it is circuit parasitics causing the oscillations.

Based on that I went back to the two shielded 1mH chokes, and found that by using more than one red LED in series I could get the oscillations to start.  Unlike the blocking oscillator using the coupled choke, the LED brightness is very dim.  By playing with it enough I was eventually able to get oscillations to start with just one red LED.  Loading the base with a 10X scope probe made the LEDs much brighter. Opening the base connection kills the oscillations, as does adding even a tiny amount of capacitance from the collector to the emitter common, or a large resistance from the base to emitter.  This tells us that Tinman was right that Miller capacitance is the energy source.  The Miller capacitance reacts with the large inductance in series with the base to drive these oscillations. 

The last scope shot is the collector and base waveforms with the LEDs open.

[MarkE]

you know, im really trying not to get too deep into this ridiculous argument here, because it's off-topic for this thread.
This should be, and has been many times, discussed in the JT threads.
but since our benevolent author also uses a JT circuit with recharging batteries in a similar manner as the video posted here,
i'll show you this.
When you send a pulsed DC signal through a transformer, there is a reluctance through the core, due to timing differences during charging of the core.
When this signal is at the resonant frequency (adjusted by the resistance through the transistor), the function becomes a purely resistive factor, and a clean waveform is produced, at maximum amplitude.
My lab was lost, and I don't have the tools to do this myself, so I dug up someone elses.

TK makes a great demonstration of this effect in his video, using a fairly accurate signal generator, and his O-scope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ZN5QJZClY

as you can see here, this greatly alters the effect of the induction through the secondary coil, which will increase the efficiency of your joule thief circuit. 
This is how a JT circuit was intended to be used. This is the effect described by Steven Mark.
The "toy" that has become so famous, makes no reference to this critical factor, and therefore, the quickie-circuits produced in the How-To instructionals are not resonant, and inherently inneficient.

Once more:  The archetypical Joule thief circuit is a blocking oscillator not an oscillator timed by a resonant tank.  If you wish to discuss a circuit that is timed by a tank as it turns-out Tinman's circuit is, then show a diagram for such a circuit.

[MileHigh]

There is a disconnect with Sm0ky2 where he doesn't understand that the method of excitation for the coil in a Joule Thief is not even related to a method for finding the self-resonant frequency for a coil.  He is also blindly believing the generic catch-all phrase that "resonance make the circuit more efficient" and applying it to a Joule Thief.

Sm0ky2:  With a few months of diligent study you will be in a better position to appreciate this.

[tinman]

Once more:  The archetypical Joule thief circuit is a blocking oscillator not an oscillator timed by a resonant tank.  If you wish to discuss a circuit that is timed by a tank as it turns-out Tinman's circuit is, then show a diagram for such a circuit.

So i threw together a quick cool joule circuit,just so as i could have a look at it with my digital scope.Below is the slightly modified circuit(D1 removed),and a scope shot. The blue trace is across emitter/base,and the yellow trace is across emitter/collector. I am useing two identical solenoid coils from an old washing machines water valves-->both have the steel core removed,so as they are air core now. I have changed the transistor to a TIP35C. Looking at the scope,it seems that the transistor is switching on with only 480mV on the leading pulse,but not sure how the trailing pulse is happening,as the base of the transistor is still a negative polarity