Overunity motor, part3, all 4 recharging bats reading at 1.400 volts now.

[tinman]

I tried a TIP-102.  I could not get it to start.  The base - emitter resistors are likely damping out the tank.  I did manage to find a 2N3055 in my junk box.  It runs much slower than the 2N2222A which is quite understandable given the lower gain.

Yes,that would be one of the reasons mine has a low frequency. the TIP35C seems to give much the same results as the 3055.

[MarkE]

Yes,that would be one of the reasons mine has a low frequency. the TIP35C seems to give much the same results as the 3055.

So just for a lark, I measured the efficiency of an ordinary Joule Thief using a 470uH coupled choke from Coilcraft: MSD1260-474.  For the transistor, I used a DMN2075 N channel MOSFET.  This is a low threshold voltage, low on resistance device.  I get about 65% efficiency at 7.4kHz.  Peak current is about 140mA.  There is only:  the coupled choke, the MOSFET, and the LED.

[MileHigh]

So just for a lark, I measured the efficiency of an ordinary Joule Thief using a 470uH coupled choke from Coilcraft: MSD1260-474.  For the transistor, I used a DMN2075 N channel MOSFET.  This is a low threshold voltage, low on resistance device.  I get about 65% efficiency at 7.4kHz.  Peak current is about 140mA.  There is only:  the coupled choke, the MOSFET, and the LED.

I think a few years back there were people that were convinced that the Joule Thief was going to "revolutionize everything."  I am not talking about Bill's JT threads either.  It was almost a cult.  Yet, I am willing to bet that nobody ever measured the efficiency like you just did.

There is so much junk and superstition and inane nonsense out there (in this realm) when it comes to electronics.  Once my nemesis Jbignes5 said something like "The Tesla bifilar coil was going to change the world."  Really?!  The guy doesn't have the slightest clue when it comes to electronics.  Sm0ky2 is a classic example of somebody buying into a lot of crap but he can't offer up any substance to back up his claims.  Yet he really believes what he is saying.

Not that it really matters in the overall scheme of things, but it used to annoy me.  People are going to do what they want, and the human condition is such that there is both brilliance and stupidity wherever you look.

There is a kind of "Milgram experiment" at play that goes something like this:  Here we are experimenting outside the bounds of conventional science.  Proper understanding and measurements don't count, just look at your results.  People that challenge us with conventional science are demons working for the cabal and you are under orders to denounce them as heretics.

So you end up with ostensibly nice people accusing other people of being "paid government agents" just because they want to apply science to understand what's going on.  On one level it's really sick and they are no different than the people in the Milgram experiment believing that they were administering pain and suffering onto other people because an authority figure told them to do that.

The "authority figure" in this case is the belief that "we are cool rebels outside normal science" and associated peer pressure and that gives them a "license" to denounce outer people as "paid government agents."  The whole thing is completely retarded.

Sorry for that diversion and back to your discussion.

MileHigh

[MarkE]

I think a few years back there were people that were convinced that the Joule Thief was going to "revolutionize everything."  I am not talking about Bill's JT threads either.  It was almost a cult.  Yet, I am willing to bet that nobody ever measured the efficiency like you just did.

There is so much junk and superstition and inane nonsense out there (in this realm) when it comes to electronics.  Once my nemesis Jbignes5 said something like "The Tesla bifilar coil was going to change the world."  Really?!  The guy doesn't have the slightest clue when it comes to electronics.  Sm0ky2 is a classic example of somebody buying into a lot of crap but he can't offer up any substance to back up his claims.  Yet he really believes what he is saying.

Not that it really matters in the overall scheme of things, but it used to annoy me.  People are going to do what they want, and the human condition is such that there is both brilliance and stupidity wherever you look.

There is a kind of "Milgram experiment" at play that goes something like this:  Here we are experimenting outside the bounds of conventional science.  Proper understanding and measurements don't count, just look at your results.  People that challenge us with conventional science are demons working for the cabal and you are under orders to denounce them as heretics.

So you end up with ostensibly nice people accusing other people of being "paid government agents" just because they want to apply science to understand what's going on.  On one level it's really sick and they are no different than the people in the Milgram experiment believing that they were administering pain and suffering onto other people because an authority figure told them to do that.

The "authority figure" in this case is the belief that "we are cool rebels outside normal science" and associated peer pressure and that gives them a "license" to denounce outer people as "paid government agents."  The whole thing is completely retarded.

Sorry for that diversion and back to your discussion.

MileHigh

The real efficiency killer in a Joule Thief is its reliance on saturation of the magnetic core to switch.  The inductor current and circuit conduction losses shoot through the roof during the transition into saturation.  Using very square magnetic material as used in better magnetic amplifiers would reduce that loss a lot at a price of more expensive cores.  The $1. Chinese solar stick lights get around that by using a multivibrator circuit to time turning the switching transistor on and off.  They turn the transistor off well before the core approaches saturation avoiding the big uptick in current that occurs with an archetypical Joule Thief.  This also lets them use simple inductors that cost only a couple of pennies.  If you want to buy coupled chokes needed by a Joule Thief, they are around $0.40 in 5K quantities and $0.20 each in million piece quantities.  A number of those $1. retail stick lights get efficiencies close to 90%.  They are limited in the average power that they can deliver by the discontinuous conduction of the inductor.  10mA to 20mA average current to the LEDs is common.  They can be modified to continuously conduct to obtain more power, but at the cost of a substantial efficiency hit due to the need for output rectification and hard switching on both edges.

[tinman]

The real efficiency killer in a Joule Thief is its reliance on saturation of the magnetic core to switch.  The inductor current and circuit conduction losses shoot through the roof during the transition into saturation.  Using very square magnetic material as used in better magnetic amplifiers would reduce that loss a lot at a price of more expensive cores.  The $1. Chinese solar stick lights get around that by using a multivibrator circuit to time turning the switching transistor on and off.  They turn the transistor off well before the core approaches saturation avoiding the big uptick in current that occurs with an archetypical Joule Thief.  This also lets them use simple inductors that cost only a couple of pennies.  If you want to buy coupled chokes needed by a Joule Thief, they are around $0.40 in 5K quantities and $0.20 each in million piece quantities.  A number of those $1. retail stick lights get efficiencies close to 90%.  They are limited in the average power that they can deliver by the discontinuous conduction of the inductor.  10mA to 20mA average current to the LEDs is common.  They can be modified to continuously conduct to obtain more power, but at the cost of a substantial efficiency hit due to the need for output rectification and hard switching on both edges.

Those little solar garden light circuits only use around 3mA ,and the LED apears quite bright.
Maybe a half bridge circuit that triggers at the 0 volt line across the driving coil.