Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.

[ramset]

TinMan
Mark E is a huge advocate of BIG Government ,for you to intimate that anything could possibly go wrong with that process [the government or Big Boys club policing and investigating itself ] is Blasphemy to people that believe in the process.

your considered a heretic to even question such...

where's your faith ??

Building 7 is just fine,
stop making such a fuss and get back in Line.......your annoying the "keeper"

[MarkE]

NoMark,it hasnt,and you have provided no proof at all that the planes could exceed there Vmo by such a great margin-->fact 1

Yet another nutter approach.  The nutter claim is that the planes could not fly at that speed near sea level.  Nutter supposed evidence fails to establish the nutter claim.

No Mark. How is it you have lined up on an object and keep a very precise heading when you have to make a 330* spiral dive at 470MPH. That target was not lined up at all--Fact 2.

By George you might figure it out if you bother to read the reference I linked.

1-you have failed to provide an example of any other steel framed building that has totally collapsed due to fire-->

You have failed to prove that angry space dolphins didn't crush the buildings.  More nutterdom.

2-Most of the jet fuel burned up within a few seconds of impact-this can be seen clearly on video footage-->fact.

I made no reference to the jet fuel.  Nutter straw man.

3-Building 7 was not hit by a plane--Fact

Did you figure that out all by yourself?  It was hit by debris from a collapsing skyscraper.  It had unique design features due to the ConEd substation.  But don't let anything relevant deter you from the nutter path.  Just drink more Nutter-Aid.  It's what nutters crave!

4-Building 7 never suffered enough damage to totally collaps in on it self at free fall speed-Fact

So you insist.  The professionals at NIST who actually studied the facts have shown how you are mistaken.

5-An office furniture fire that is oxygen starved will never get hot enough to turn any steel into molten metal that flows out of windows--Fact.

You insist on this nutter straw man.  The strength of structural steel is reduced to lest to 10% of its room temperature value at 800C, well within the temperature it reaches in a sustained fire.  Add in damaged columns from WTC1 impact and you have a structural machine that has been pressed beyond its limits and fails as WTC7 did.  We are not talking about smoldering papers.  The fire coming out of the east side of the building just prior to the collapse I call ferocious.

6- NIST is controlled by the government,and no test were carried out for explosive residue's. The NIST is one of the most unreliable groups to put forth any type of report. They are your only evidence provider--Fact.

So what?  This is more examples of nutter logic.  There was no reason to look for something that wasn't there and even your nutter hero Steven Jones did not find.  NIST is one of the premiere organizations of engineers and scientists on the planet.  Like any other large organization they may have a few duds, and like any other organization they will have people who make blunders.  However, the WTC reports are the work product of hundreds with extensive internal review.  Nutters like you and Sterling Allan can't evaluate the evidence, have no comprehension of the process, and want to adhere to nutty conspiracy theories so you just declare that the hundreds of actual professionals who worked on that report are in on a mass murder plot.  You guys are fucking Bugs Bunny Looney Tunes nuts.

And i maintain that,and i am the only one of us that has provided any proof that supports that. You have been unable to provide a single example of another highrise building that has collapsed due to fire. The reason for this is because they simply dont. There have been fires far hotter than any of the fires in the WTC buildings that have burnt for twice as long,and still they didnt collaps-because they just dont--Fact

Ignoring the elephant in the room again are we?  Go swig some more Nutter Aid.

As far as your overpass go's,you obviously do not know the difference between a reinforced concrete single story structure,and a steel framed highrise building--Fact

Oh my, apples and oranges.  Your claim was if you can remember through that nutter haze was that the steel could not fail unless it melts.  The overpass failure clearly shows that you are dead wrong.

Find just one experienced pilot that could make this maneuver in a 757-just one. Many have tried in sim's,and to date not one has succeeded. You may also like to take this up with TK-an experienced pilot. My guess is that you wont,as you only argue with those you think you can beat-but you didnt fair to well on my cool joule circuit opperation--Fact.

I see you did not read the reference I linked written by an experienced heavy aircraft pilot.

There are far greater and more experienced engineers,scientist,explosive,and demolition experts that say the NIST report is rubbish--Fact.

Every claim that you have tried to make against the NIST report, including linking it to Flight 77 which they did not examine has been refuted.  But in the world of the zealot nutter, evidence goes out the window.  It is the preconceived conclusion that matters.  You are no different than Sterling Allan on this.  Consider the company you are keeping.

And you say you know physics. If it was any other topic you'd be argueing the point against this.A building that pancakes dose not drop at free fall speed. Every floor the one above hit's when dropping meets resistance--you know,equal and opposite reactions. So the collaps speed would have been a lot slower if it was just a pancake collaps,as each floor met resistance of the floor below. As can be clearly seen in so many video's,there were explosions 6 to 7 floors bellow the last impacted floor as the building collapsed. The only way to bring a building down that fast is to remove or weaken the floors below before the one above hit it--Facts.

There is no such thing as free-fall speed.  You are completely out of your depth.

As i stated before,the bulk of the jet fuel was burned up on impact--Fact
The WTC buildings were designed to withstand the impact and ensueing fires of a 707 jet liner-one of the largest at the time. The 707 was capable of higher speeds that the 767,and also could deliver a far higher energy impact than the 767-Facts.

Civil engineering advances one disaster at a time.

No. I see metal that was heated to temperatures that extreem by oxygen starved fires with office furniture as fuel,that it was turned into molten steel that ran out of the windows,and remained red hot for weeks under ground.

Oh so now you contend that steel melted?  You should pick which nutter hypothesis you want to go with.  Are you considering The Wrath of Flipper next?

I see no concrete left at ground zero,as most of it has turned to dust. Never in the history of demolition has concrete been totally dustifyed. Show me a picture of a demolition site where thousands of tones of concrete just turned to dust.
Traces of nano thermite(with the rest of the ingredients needed) where found in the (what use to be concrete)dust for blocks away from the towers,along with micro beads.

So says the nutter Steven Jones.  Consider the source.  Of course the dustification hypothesis comes from the nutter Judy Wood who says your Steven Jones is a misinformation agent.  When the dark truth comes out that she's covering for Flipper's comrades then the tuna's really going to hit the fan.

Everything i have posted are facts Mark(bar the incorrect top speed of 220MPH),and all you have to offer is the NIST report-->kindly bought to you by the government.

Ooh, if someone works for the government they must have a Dick Cheney Soul Suppressor Implant.  Is that your concept?  Have another swig of Nutter Aid.

What we need from you is credible evidence MarkE,not some cooked up report that is designed to mislead.

Oh, so now I am one of those misinformation agents?  The NIST report is quite credible to rational people.  If you ever wash the Nutter Aid out of your system you might come to your senses.

1-A link to another highrise building that has collapsed due to fire.

Chant the nutter chant.

2- A valid reason why all the evidence was shipped of so fast,and a crime seen wasnt astablished around the site,and investigations carried out in the manner they are with every other such incident of this nature,and far less. E.G-if a plane crashes in the ocean,they spend millions on retrieving that plane,and put it back together piece by piece,and dont stop until they have every answer they need to solve the incident

3- A pilot that has or thinks it quite easy/possable to pull of the maneuver that was performed by a bloke that couldnt even get his cessna licence.
4-A link or picture of another building collaps where there is such a small amount of concrete left-also mostly turned to dust.
5- An answer as to how the buildings you say pancake collapsed managed to fall at free fall speed-even though there should have been resistance due to ambiant air.
6- A data sheet or an admision by boeing that the 757 and 767 can fly at speeds far above there Vmo limit 700 feet above sea level-->757 470MPH-while doing a 330* spiral dive.767-500,and 580MPH.
7- Recreate a fire with office furniture(on a small scale of course),and show us how it can gain enough heat to melt(lets say just a 1/2" mild steel rod)to liquid steel-->throw on some jet fuel if you wish to get things cranking. My bet is you wont even get it to glow a dull red--Fact.

How about I just ship you another complimentary case of Nutter Aid?

[d3x0r]

So,  work performed during isothermal compression = -  nRT ln(V/Vo) = -0.9 * 8.313 * 280.15 * ln(1/20.73) [3] = 6354.2 J or 6.35 kJ

When I put that into my calculator I get 2096...
= -0.9 * 8.313 * 280.15 * 3

vs what I said
= 0.84 * 8.3145 * 291.3 * -3   (-2031)

ln(x/y)=-ln(y/x) so +/- ... as appropriate

your moles are higher, but tempurature lower... so it should still be at least in the same ballpark....

[TinselKoala]

Well... the Pentagon flight maneuver clearly wasn't "impossible" since it happened. Highly unlikely certainly. I wonder if any of the pilots who tried to do it in the simulator simply let "George" do it: Select "Flight level change" on the altitude with sea level as the bottom, and "heading change" on the navigation mode with the intercept heading as the ... er... target. Two knobs to twist is all that takes, and all you have to do is be at or near the right "entry point" or initial point IP at altitude when you start the turn. 
I'd love to get into a Boeing simulator and try it myself....

The floors of the WTC were made of some kind of steel mesh pans with a thin layer of concrete poured into them, and these were attached to the columns by, reportedly, substandard bolts. Once one let go and fell down onto the one below, it's easy to imagine how the whole thing successively pancaked down with very little delay as each floor sheared its attach bolts from the weight and momentum coming down from above. The concrete in these floor pans "dustified" very easily as the rebars twisted and snapped during the falling process.

Regardless of the cause of the failures, it did happen, so the "911 truthers" still have a problem, because controlled demolitions don't work that way either.

I do agree that there is a lot of fishy-smelling facts, coincidences, whatever, surrounding the event. I'm not siding with the "truthers" but I don't fully accept the "government approved" explanation either. The buildings came down as a result of being struck by hijacked airliners controlled from within each cockpit by some ragtag suicidal pseudoMuslims, some using assumed identities. The people actually flying may or may not have been skilled pilots, I dunno. The whole plot may or may not have been put together by the "usual suspects", I dunno. One thing I do know is this: there is a lot of corruption in governments and Big Money leads to Big Corruption, and the little people like me who depend on the media for our information can't really do anything about it... we just have to suck it up and hope that we don't get screwed too badly before we finally die.


I also know that it's silly to talk about results with 10 or 12 digits of precision when performing calculations where your input values are only known (or guessed) to three or four digits of precision.

[allcanadian]

@TK

The floors of the WTC were made of some kind of steel mesh pans with a thin layer of concrete poured into them, and these were attached to the columns by, reportedly, substandard bolts. Once one let go and fell down onto the one below, it's easy to imagine how the whole thing successively pancaked down with very little delay as each floor sheared its attach bolts from the weight and momentum coming down from above. The concrete in these floor pans "dustified" very easily as the rebars twisted and snapped during the falling process.

Your theory seems more plausible and government incompetence/corruption seems more likely than some grand master plan. The real conspiracy may be that most government people ain't much smarter than the average used car salesman and are not really prepared for anything out of the ordinary. I know this as a fact from experience so this master plan nonsense doesn't quite fly in my books.


AC