Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.

[d3x0r]

It is no more probable then compressing a spring returns free energy, or hoisting a weight attached to a counter weight via a rope over a pulley.

the decompression of this 'spring' is over a greater distance and longer time than it took to compress.  so this isn't a spring.

[d3x0r]

The amount of energy you will need to impart to the air will be (at minimum) the amount of energy required to lift a mass of water represented by the column of water with the horizontal component of the surface area of the float times the depth that it is submerged to. Fairly easy to calculate.

Using air will require more than that due to the losses to heat when compressing the air, and depends on the efficiency of the compressor.

Yes.. the whole point is the depth of the water and it IS an easy calculation.  Horizontal component is irrelavent.  .. other than a larger surface moves less; but that doesn't imply that it does any less work.


well... market compressors are like 30 (2atm) to 90(6atm) of pressure and I only need +20%.  Yes, a slight amount of heat will be imparted, but that only serves to increase the effective pressure at the input.  Disappation as the air rises in the water will shed that heat.   

[tinman]

well... they are both expressed as answers to
1) how much work is done by bouyancy
and
2) how much work is required to compress air


I realize that the result is in different units; but which equation is wrong?

d3x0r
You are banging your head against a brick wall trying to explain your concept to the guru's. These guy's are the !physics hold all the answers! guy's,and have no room for indifferent. You are closer to the right answer than they are,as they have missed one big effect that tips the scales in favour of it working. The buckets do not have to have all the water diplaced when at the bottom of the tube,and only a small portion of air need be pumped into each bucket. As the bucket rises,more water is diplaced from the bucket,and the bucket becomes more bouyant. At the same time,the water level in the tube rises,and your bucket now has a longer duration of lift than it did at the start. The closer to the surface the bucket get's,the less the pressure is,and more water is displaced from the bucket-->and ofcourse,the higher the water level climbs. So while they go on calculations that see a fixed head of water,and thus a fixed distance the buckets can travel,is infact wrong,as both these valuse change for each bucket cycle.

[d3x0r]

Force and energy are expressed in different units because they are unique from each other.  They do not equate with one another.

1) Zero, nada, de minimus, squat. 
2) A lot more than anyone has ever been able to recover letting it expand again.

So from 1) you get:  The machine can't perform any net useful work. And, from 2) you get:  The machine cannot transfer work between a source and a load efficiently.  It is a very expensive room ornament / heater.

1) if I have a force, it can do work... and all the calculation are based on 1 second, so applying time is X * 1 = X... and the seconds in the units disappear.  if I have a whole bunch of ping pong balls, their bouyant force is enough to raise many tons of wreckage from very deep depths.  If there was no work able to be done, then it wouldn't have moved.  It would have taken infinite time, or moved 0... 


2) nRT ln(V2/v1)  I even did the work to put it out.


Look if you don't actually KNOW anything, then stop quoting useless rules of thumb.


Just because noone used a stick to throw a spear doesn't mean that the american indians weren't able to leverage more power because they did.

[MileHigh]

Take a flywheel and cut a small piece out of it that would represent our ship,and glue that small piece a little further out toward the outer perimeter of the flywheel. Now spin that flywheel in the vacuum of space and tell me that it will slow down quicker than it would if that piece was placed back to where it came from.

I think the above quote helps explain why you are "out there" on this one.  Who said anything about the flywheel or Earth slowing down like some kind of flywheel or pulse motor spin down?  If you do the boat thing just one day, then the Earth slows down by a fixed amount.  You have taken a bite out of the Earth's rotational energy and turned it into electrical energy with your system.  It's not a spin-down, it's a single step down in rotational speed.  It's closely related to how the tides take a bite out of the Earth's rotational energy every day and pass it to the moon, resulting in a step down in rotational speed.

All that you have to do is read about the Earth-moon system.  The Earth is putting torque on the orbiting moon and throwing it into a higher orbit.  With the tidal ship system you just kind of hitch a ride on the tidal system and "steal" a bit of that energy for your generator.  It's where leap seconds come from - the Earth is always slowing down.

However the Earth slowing down, it's not a spin down in the conventional sense like a flywheel.  It's more like the Earth-moon system is trading energy, the Earth's rotational energy is being transferred into the moon's orbital energy.  Ironically enough, your ship system is in a way comparable to friction slowing down a flywheel.  Because you are "stealing energy from the moon" and turning it into heat.  Just like bearing friction on the flywheel becomes heat.

It has nothing to do with the mass of the Earth changing, and nothing to do with gravity in the conventional up-down sense.

It may all sound confusing, but it should all start to make sense if you read about the Earth-moon system.   You system does not get energy from gravity.  It's just one of those cases where you have to dig a bit deeper to see what's really going on.  What you sometimes see, like a ship going up and down in the tides through a gravity field, is not necessarily what your first crack at understanding it really is.