The bearing motor

[allcanadian]

@mags

And, if the ring magnet is mounted to the disk axle, so the ring magnet is spinning with the disk, applying current to the disk only, the magnet and the disk will spin.  This shows that the field of the ring magnet is basically not spinning with the magnet. The paradox. [/size]

I had time to do a few tests and confirm my initial thoughts. The wire on the side of the magnet does experience a force in the opposite direction to the magnet... equal and opposite as tinman described. The magnet or the wire may move however the field direction in the magnet is opposite to the field external to the magnet. Which explains why the conduction path through the magnet (magnet rotating) moves in the opposite direction to the wire rotating (wire rotates). A conducting washer on the pole of the magnet but insulated from it confirms the field direction reverses at the side of the magnet as it relates to the field at the pole which was also confirmed with a hall effect probe.


I think the problem here may be one of perception as the conductive path through the magnet from side to center is still under the influence of it's own internal magnetic field. A magnet consists of millions of smaller magnetized pieces thus the conductive path through the magnet must experience a force just like any other conductor however as I said the field direction in the magnet is opposite to that external to it.


I should also mention that I have done numerous tests which confirm the magnetic field around a magnet is in fact stationary and does not rotate with the magnet.



AC

[Magluvin]

@mags

I had time to do a few tests and confirm my initial thoughts. The wire on the side of the magnet does experience a force in the opposite direction to the magnet... equal and opposite as tinman described. The magnet or the wire may move however the field direction in the magnet is opposite to the field external to the magnet. Which explains why the conduction path through the magnet (magnet rotating) moves in the opposite direction to the wire rotating (wire rotates). A conducting washer on the pole of the magnet but insulated from it confirms the field direction reverses at the side of the magnet as it relates to the field at the pole which was also confirmed with a hall effect probe.


I think the problem here may be one of perception as the conductive path through the magnet from side to center is still under the influence of it's own internal magnetic field. A magnet consists of millions of smaller magnetized pieces thus the conductive path through the magnet must experience a force just like any other conductor however as I said the field direction in the magnet is opposite to that external to it.


I should also mention that I have done numerous tests which confirm the magnetic field around a magnet is in fact stationary and does not rotate with the magnet.



AC

"I should also mention that I have done numerous tests which confirm the magnetic field around a magnet is in fact stationary and does not rotate with the magnet. "

Thats what basically kills the idea of actual field lines for me. Field lines are a convenient way to describe the path and the density, but that idea of actual lines would tend to indicate that all those little magnets in the material may have their own lines and would move or rotate with the rotation of the ring magnet. To me anyway. But they dont, just as you say. 

So lets say we have a disk mag set up so that it dangles from a thread, N up and S down and we set up a current carrying wire as if it were in one of these demonstrations with a AA batt, disk mag and a piece of copper wire, but we dont have any current running through the mag, just the wire, the mag will move as a whole, but it wont spin like the demonstrations weve seen. Only when the current flows through the radius of the mag, where the current carrying wire is making contact, will the mag spin on its axis.


So this also indicates to me that mutual induction doesnt have anything to do with actual fields cutting a conductor, but it is the field strength change, polarity and angle included to get the desired result, at the mutually induced conductor that activates the induction currents.

Mags

[Magluvin]

This will be interesting to see.  My guess is that it will not turn without the shaft, but, that is what testing is about...
we will see. 

Good luck.

Bill

its weird in a way.  When we look at the fields produced in each component of the bearing, we cant look at them as magnets in the normal way.  There are no end poles on any of the components. They all act like fields around a current carrying wire and the fields are just circular loop fields around the axis of current flow through each component.  This is where I lean towards the tilting of these circular rings when the balls rotate with current flowing through them, causing an offset that causes the thing to move in either direction when started by hand.

Mags

[allcanadian]

Hey mags

So lets say we have a disk mag set up so that it dangles from a thread, N up and S down and we set up a current carrying wire as if it were in one of these demonstrations with a AA batt, disk mag and a piece of copper wire, but we dont have any current running through the mag, just the wire, the mag will move as a whole, but it wont spin like the demonstrations weve seen. Only when the current flows through the radius of the mag, where the current carrying wire is making contact, will the mag spin on its axis.

I would agree, and when an external force is acting on the external field it seems to appear as a force translating to the field as a simple repulsion/attraction thus acts on the magnet as a whole which seems reasonable. However when the force is internal it may act on the stationary field perpendicular to it producing rotation.

So this also indicates to me that mutual induction doesnt have anything to do with actual fields cutting a conductor, but it is the field strength change, polarity and angle included to get the desired result, at the mutually induced conductor that activates the induction currents.

I also agree and this notion of "cutting" these imaginary field lines does not seem intuitive whatsoever however if one is going to believe in lines then cutting is really the only option isn't it?. Thus we have limited our options as to what we perceive can or cannot happen. The other option is the particle/field theory however then we must resort to infinite element analysis in which case everything get's really complicated really fast...it's a quagmire at best, lol.


I was thinking of a test which would prove the force/field issue one way or another... do you have any suggestions in this regard?. I mean if someone has a test they would like to confirm I have everything setup to confirm anyone's suspicions one way or another.


AC

[Magluvin]

Hey mags

I would agree, and when an external force is acting on the external field it seems to appear as a force translating to the field as a simple repulsion/attraction thus acts on the magnet as a whole which seems reasonable. However when the force is internal it may act on the stationary field perpendicular to it producing rotation.

I also agree and this notion of "cutting" these imaginary field lines does not seem intuitive whatsoever however if one is going to believe in lines then cutting is really the only option isn't it?. Thus we have limited our options as to what we perceive can or cannot happen. The other option is the particle/field theory however then we must resort to infinite element analysis in which case everything get's really complicated really fast...it's a quagmire at best, lol.


I was thinking of a test which would prove the force/field issue one way or another... do you have any suggestions in this regard?. I mean if someone has a test they would like to confirm I have everything setup to confirm anyone's suspicions one way or another.


AC

"I also agree and this notion of "cutting" these imaginary field lines does not seem intuitive whatsoever however if one is going to believe in lines then cutting is really the only option isn't it?."

It is THE option that seems to work for what we know so far.  But just the idea that it is put into our minds that we should look at it as lines has me thinking what if there is more to it all if we find another way to look at it.    


"I was thinking of a test which would prove the force/field issue one way or another... do you have any suggestions in this regard?. I mean if someone has a test they would like to confirm I have everything setup to confirm anyone's suspicions one way or another."

As in that the field seems independent of the spinning ring magnet?

Mags