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Increase efficiency of rotating shaft.

Started by jigar, October 09, 2006, 12:30:43 PM

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Gregory

Hi Jigar,

As I presume after, my first thought was right and the second is very wrong, your too.
The stationary weight can't help to rotate the pulleys, and the reason for this is very simple:
Try to push a wheel / pulley with your hand, while you never take back your hand... Impossible.
In this case your hand hinder the rotation of the pulley. The pulley can't rotate because your hand is there.

The weight excert its force on the pulley, but this same force prevent the rotation.
When the friction is set to a high rate the thing is locked. When the friction is set to a low rate, the wheel will begin to swing like a pendulum, but stops sooner.

There is only one exception:
When the weight is not stationary, but swing up and down, and gives short pushes to the wheel.
However this version has limited usability.

In the picture only the blue plate is allowed to collide with the wheels. The brown rods limit the movement of the plate which only allowed to move up. Purple weights set to 12 Kg, blue plate set to 25 Kg.

Greg

jigar

Quote from: Greg & Gregory on October 16, 2006, 09:57:07 AM
Hi Jigar,

plz view second figure, where I decrease redii of pulleys continueously up to one point. consider minor decrease of diameter In this case I am 100% sure we can create  energy.we can lift mass using less energy. The energy lost by the plate is very less compere to the energy got by pulleys because we give minor decrease in diameter. here pulleys become like a cam. and we can apply free body diagram correctly on this figure. and in this figure also we can get continuous rotation by doing minor change.check this figure in your simulation
        As I presume after, my first thought was right and the second is very wrong, your too.
The stationary weight can't help to rotate the pulleys, and the reason for this is very simple:
Try to push a wheel / pulley with your hand, while you never take back your hand... Impossible.
In this case your hand hinder the rotation of the pulley. The pulley can't rotate because your hand is there.

The weight excert its force on the pulley, but this same force prevent the rotation.
When the friction is set to a high rate the thing is locked. When the friction is set to a low rate, the wheel will begin to swing like a pendulum, but stops sooner.

There is only one exception:
When the weight is not stationary, but swing up and down, and gives short pushes to the wheel.
However this version has limited usability.

In the picture only the blue plate is allowed to collide with the wheels. The brown rods limit the movement of the plate which only allowed to move up. Purple weights set to 12 Kg, blue plate set to 25 Kg.

Greg

Gregory

Of course, with changing radii the pulleys can rotate some degrees, less than 360 degrees.

But in this case the stationary weight doesn't remain stationary at all. It descends to a lower position while the radii of the pulleys are decreasing. So, at the end of the cycle you must lift the stationary weight back to the initial position, and replace it on the longest radius of the spiralic body. This takes energy. Finally you didn't gain any energy. The result is Zero, minus the friction.

It is analogous to the swing of a pendulum. It can't swing higher by itself.
Or to a roller coaster... ;)

jigar

Quote from: Greg & Gregory on October 19, 2006, 05:24:00 AM
It is not like pendulum.
Consider two off set cams and between these two cams there is  one follower.From the contact point of cam and follower, we continuously decrease redii of cam up to one point.We give minor decrease in redii. we decrease redii at 10:1 ratio. It means if the length of periphery from one point to other point is 10 cm than decrease of redii from one point to other point is 1 cm. For left side cam we decrease redii from right to left. I mean we decrease redii of left side cam in antclockwise direction. For right side cam we decrease redii from left to right. we decrease redii of right side cam in clockwise direction.Now we apply some vertical load or weight from follower to two cams.Tengential componant of this load helps the cams to rotate. Left side cam rotate in clockwise direction and right side cam rotate in anti clockwise direction. Because of minor decrease in redii of cams ,follower come little bit down in vertical direction. But the same time  the load or weight helps cams to rotate on more length of periphery at some angle. We can increase efficiency of rotating shaft. We can lift mass using less energy. And for 360 degree rotation we give rise from last point to first point of cam in less length of periphery.or we can use some external mean to lift weight.But the energy we got on the cams is more than energy lost to lift weight to its initial position.
Of course, with changing radii the pulleys can rotate some degrees, less than 360 degrees.

But in this case the stationary weight doesn't remain stationary at all. It descends to a lower position while the radii of the pulleys are decreasing. So, at the end of the cycle you must lift the stationary weight back to the initial position, and replace it on the longest radius of the spiralic body. This takes energy. Finally you didn't gain any energy. The result is Zero, minus the friction.

It is analogous to the swing of a pendulum. It can't swing higher by itself.
Or to a roller coaster... ;)