A sincere gentleman sharing a magnet motor build .[NDA issues??]

[ramset]

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTcw6NPn9BQ

Its cool to see and the comparison between that action/shape and Macks Ramp shape are quite similar and I have never personally seen this before. along with some of the other things Dave has mentioned about Macks Device.
  while you may have spent millennia with these things trying to get them to work or Vetting claims..
some of us have a different frame of reference, and are intrigued .

I know it is VERY VERY easy to stand on the hallowed and righteous ground of your belief system and roll your logs of wisdom down upon the "Magnetically challenged".

IMO this _Magnet Thing_ and all its possibilities hasn't scratched the surface of what is truly possible, nor have we scratched the surface of what we can do when we put our heads together around a problem and explore the "what Ifs".

your willingness to experiment and   input is always appreciated however your perspective is not unique.

this Puzzle was meant to be cracked.

respectfully
Chet

PS
Tinsel
I am aware of your "smarts" and I am not trying to put you on the spot    but I ask a favor [I get to do this because you are omnipresent here  ...its just _one" stipulation in the _Cheeseburger betters handbook" 3rd chapter 2nd paragraph "rules of engagement when the Cheesburger is on the line ". and your opponent has encamped his drooling self and pulled the "Elvis Phrase" from his quiver ...

rules is rules....

would it be asking too much for you to share an analogy of how a magnet does what it does in a system utilizing Magnets, it is profoundly obvious that it "makes things happen" and with out the magnet [or its effect] you get zilch.

why can't they [magnets]do work ?? when without them nothing gets done ?

I see Carroll  posted a magnetic analogy in Luc's or TinMan's thread of The turbo and the Recip  ICE for a comparison to a magnet and its role  ,   as you know I was trained in Aircraft and have issues with_ that_ analogy.

can you offer another ?

If you already have somewhere [or another has] I apologize I have been outa the loop for quite some time.

PPS
It may seem like a _Dopey_ and off topic question
However That's why I get paid the Big Bucs ...
To ask seemingly Dopey and off topic questions [during the Heat of Battle in the Cheeseburger wars...]

Never assume...



 

[Dbowling]

Seriously? You think a video that shows that a magnet is attracted to some metal, and is more attracted to more metal, is somehow important to your efforts?

Seriously? You expect me to take YOUR opinion of Mack's design to heart when you do NOT see how this video applies to what Mack has shown us? PLEASE!
His idea, since you seem to be unaware of it, involves using a magnet on a rotor and ramps (METAL RAMPS)  to accelerate that rotor in a specific direction, this video shows EXACTLY what Mack has talked about. The major difference being that the narrow end of the metal or "ramp" is bent away from the magnet on the rotor, and the wide end of the metal is split to go above and below the magnet on the stator. From the experimenting I have done, the magnet wants to move to the center of the piece of metal's mass. That point is closer to the wide end than the narrow end. By splitting the wide end around the stator magnet and Bending it away from the rotor magnet, and curving the narrow end away from the approaching rotor magnet, you can control that point. 


You can use the attraction of the ramp to pull the magnet on the rotor along the metal and past the magnet on the stator, and by a slight adjustment on the rotor magnets angle, you can get the stator magnet to push it away SLIGHTLY. This I have seen with my experiments. These are the things Mack said it would do, and it does. Whether a self runner can be achieved, I do not know. But as I said, everything Mack has told us so far has proven to be true. I have SEEN it on the bench. I take NO ONE's word for it.
Dave

[TinselKoala]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTcw6NPn9BQ

Its cool to see and the comparison between that action/shape and Macks Ramp shape are quite similar and I have never personally seen this before. along with some of the other things Dave has mentioned about Macks Device.

What "Macks Device" are you referring to? There isn't any "Macks Device", just things other people have built according to his instructions, which either violate his NDA, or don't really apply to a self-running magnet motor. Or... perhaps there isn't any Macks Device, there isn't any NDA, and his instructions are just wind-ups, which actually describe nothing unusual or even original.

  while you may have spent millennia with these things trying to get them to work or Vetting claims..
some of us have a different frame of reference, and are intrigued .

Not quite "millennia", just 20 years or so, piled on top of another 20 years of formal education.

I know it is VERY VERY easy to stand on the hollowed and righteous ground of your belief system and roll your logs of wisdom down upon the "challenged".

Sure. I love being insulted, almost as much as I love having to explain the same basic stuff over and over again every few months whenever someone else comes up with a SMOT, or a circuit that makes spikes, or a new "theory of everything" that they think will overthrow QED or the Standard Model. Or a new value for PI, ffs. (Insert facepalm here.)

IMO this _Magnet Thing_ and all its possibilities hasn't scratched the surface of what is truly possible, nor have we scratched the surface of what we can do when we put our heads together around a problem and explore the "what Ifs".

Well... I guess it's just too bad that all those experimenters putting their heads together on EF are just too .... dumb, incompetent, lazy or whatever, since they can't make a self running magnet motor no matter how hard they try, even when a sincere gentleman has told them exactly how to do it. 

your willingness to experiment and   input is always appreciated however your perspective is not unique.

this Puzzle was meant to be cracked.

respectfully
Chet

I think a lot of people actually don't appreciate my input, judging from the amount of insults I receive.  Of course my perspective is not unique... but unfortunately many people who think like I do don't bother engaging in useless discussions with people who have a religious faith in miracles (and think they can perform them, if only they can get that magic magnet angle just right.) And Mark E is dead. And you can't crack a puzzle that has _no solution_, no matter how hard you pound your head against it. At some point, the smart investigator steps back, looks at the available data and comes to the conclusion that the head-pounding isn't going to pay off, and goes on to more potentially productive work.

PS
Tinsel
I am aware of your "smarts" and I am not trying to put you on the spot    but I ask a favor [I get to do this because you are omnipresent here  ...its in the _Cheeseburger betters handbook" 3rd chapter 2nd paragraph "rules of engagement when the Cheesburger is on the line ". and your opponent has encamped his drooling self and pulled the "Elvis Phrase" from his quiver ...

rules is rules....

would it be asking too much for you to share an analogy of how a magnet does what it does in a system utilizing Magnets, it is profoundly obvious that it "makes things happen" and with out the magnet [or its effect] you get zilch.

why can't they do work ?? when without them nothing gets done ?

I see Carroll  posted an analogy of The turbo and the Recip  ICE for a comparison to a magnet and its role  ,   as you know I was trained in Aircraft and have issues with_ that_ analogy.

can you offer another ? [another analogy ]

If you already have somewhere [or another has] I apologize I have been outa the loop for quite some time.

PPS
This question May _"seem_" off topic,
Never assume...

I could go on and on. Conservative fields of force, lines of flux, Maxwell's equations, Faraday's law of induction.... all of these things are descriptions, analogies, and empirical results. You are perilously close to asking the "why" question. Why is there air? To fill up basketballs with, of course.

Things move to where the forces acting on them are in equilibrium, generally. The magnetic field is a field of force. Whatever that magnetic force "IS" or just "why" it exists is one of the profound mysteries of reality, but we have observed it long enough to be able to model it mathematically, to control it and predict its effects quite well. Exactly well, in fact. And one of the things we know about it is that it can be modelled by "lines of force" which pull along their length and push apart sideways. Another thing we know is that free space (air, vacuum) is relatively non-permeable by these "lines of force", and some metals and other substances are very much more permeable by them. So when you put a magnet near a bit of metal, the metal, being more permeable, allows more "lines of force" within it than the air around it does. This means that the magnet and metal experience a net force that pulls them together. The "lines of force" are models, a way of describing something in a mathematical way so as to get a handle on it for engineering purposes. The force itself is very real. So the action of the magnet in the video is very "ordinary", the magnet is behaving entirely predictably, moving to a place where the most "lines of force" are drawn into the metal and are as short as possible, until once again the forces acting on it in various directions balance out and it stops moving. "WHY" does it do this? Ultimately, you can chase that rabbit all the way down the hole to the "Why is there something, rather than nothing?" ultimate question of reality. We don't know "why" but we DO know "how", in the case of magnetism and a lot of other stuff.

Now if you want an analogy, the magnetic force is like a spring. And just as you cannot get net work out of a spring, you can't get it out of a magnetic field. You can store energy in the spring by stretching or compressing it, and get that stored energy back. You can do the same with magnetic fields (or gravity, for that matter).
Most people realize that you can't make a perpetual motion machine out of springs, and that springs only give back what you put into them, minus losses. But magnets and magnetism seem more mysterious, probably because we can't see the fields and it looks like "spooky action at a distance" when a magnet pulls on a piece of metal or another magnet. But just like the visible springs, magnetic fields can only store energy and return stored energy, they can't create it. 

But then you knew this already.


Have you ever taken apart a computer hard disk drive? Consider the miracles of magnetism operating within that device. Incredibly strong permanent magnets with funny carefully engineered polarization patterns, sandwiched between layers of amazingly permeable "mu metal" shields. Precise head positioning, precise to the millionth of an inch in fact, due to the interaction between electromagnets and the permanent magnets. Amazingly high speed and totally precise flipping of incredibly tiny magnetic domains in the disk material itself, which material isn't actually attracted to magnets!  And then we have people who are actually using these computers, telling us that the scientists and engineers who designed such miracle devices are idiots who don't understand the "reality" of magnetic fields! The irony of that is amazing.

[TinselKoala]

Seriously? You expect me to take YOUR opinion of Mack's design to heart when you do NOT see how this video applies to what Mack has shown us? PLEASE!
His idea, since you seem to be unaware of it, involves using a magnet on a rotor and ramps (METAL RAMPS)  to accelerate that rotor in a specific direction, this video shows EXACTLY what Mack has talked about. The major difference being that the narrow end of the metal or "ramp" is bent away from the magnet on the rotor, and the wide end of the metal is split to go above and below the magnet on the stator. From the experimenting I have done, the magnet wants to move to the center of the piece of metal's mass. That point is closer to the wide end than the narrow end. By splitting the wide end around the stator magnet and Bending it away from the rotor magnet, and curving the narrow end away from the approaching rotor magnet, you can control that point. 


You can use the attraction of the ramp to pull the magnet on the rotor along the metal and past the magnet on the stator, and by a slight adjustment on the rotor magnets angle, you can get the stator magnet to push it away SLIGHTLY. This I have seen with my experiments. These are the things Mack said it would do, and it does. Whether a self runner can be achieved, I do not know. But as I said, everything Mack has told us so far has proven to be true. I have SEEN it on the bench. I take NO ONE's word for it.
Dave

And you can see exactly the same effect in many other manifestations, from the HJ systems, the Calloway v-gate, even the Minato motors. Have you looked at my videos of the test bed I made during the Mylow affair?  Here's one for your amusement, from April of 2009.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STD7FbgC5Ss

Have you actually done rundown tests to see if your ramps help or hurt? I'll bet you a cheeseburger that your rotor will take longer to come to a stop, from a given starting RPM, with your ramps removed entirely than when they are present.

And no... not everything Mack has told you has proven to be true. Some things not proven: The story of the NDA. The story of the self-running builds. The story of the illness/hospital.  And etc. You've listed some of these yourself. They are "Mack saids" without any corroborating evidence whatsoever.

You may also consider that some things I've told you have also proven to be true. Haven't they? To wit: There is no self running magnet motor coming from Mack and his fans, and in another week, month, year, there will still be none.

[Dbowling]

So in other words the video I posted DOES have something to do with the build proposed by Mack. Even though you insinuated that it did not.


Let me rephrase my statement about the things that Mack has said that have proven to be true. EVERYTHING he has said about this proposed BUILD has proven to be true. As for everything else he has said. It has not been proven to be true, nor has it been proven to be false.


As to the rundown test....I will not disagree that metal in the presence of the magnet on a rotor will slow the rotor. However, if you watched the video, you can see that the correct shaped piece of metal will actually cause movement of the rotor in a specific direction. Can THAT movement (Is there acceleration involved???...I don't KNOW) be manipulated enough to overcome the adverse affects of the metal in the presence of the magnet. As far as I can tell, THAT is the central issue to whether or not his proposed build will work. The mass and shape of that metal ramp and how it affects the magnets on the rotor is EXACTLY what needs to be experimented with. I would bet YOU a cheeseburger that changing the mass and shape of that "ramp" will impact the rundown times.


Let me be perfectly clear about something here. I am as skeptical of this proposed build as the next guy, BUT I am also open minded enough to explore what are (at least to ME) new areas of magnetic interaction (Like with these pie shaped ramps). In my mind, my time spent learning about something that is currently outside my experience is not, and never will be, wasted. I am sure you see this from a different knowledge base, and therefore a different perspective. To me, it is NEW knowledge, and worth having. If all this proves to be a total waste of time and money, it won't be the first or the last "money pit" I have engaged in.


I mean no disrespect to you. You may already have experimented for YEARS with these pie shaped ramps and know everything there is to know about them, but from some simple experiments I have done, which I will post in a couple days when I have the time to download them off my camera, there are some things of interest here that are worth investigating.


I believe the thread on EF is about dead. Mack has not been back, and most people over there don't actually build anything anyway. They just TALK and post YouTube videos of other people's work. So except for a few Diehards like myself (and possibly Bruce Willis, although he seems pretty busy making B movies lately) there probably aren't many folks even working on this.


Dave