Rotating Magnetic Field's and Inductors.

[tinman]

I posted a quick video showing how having a rotor with alternating magnetic field passing a pulsed inductor can improve the efficiency of that inductor as far as the inductive kickback output go's.

Tonight i through together a quick pulse motor type setup that is close to the bedini SSG-only triggered by my FG. I was quite surprised at just how much the P/in increased,and the P/out decrease just by removing the spinning rotor with the magnets in it.

How is it that the pulsed inductor provides the energy to spin the rotor,but the efficiency of the system also increases.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVhYGiJFRFY


Brad

[MileHigh]

I posted a quick video showing how having a rotor with alternating magnetic field passing a pulsed inductor can improve the efficiency of that inductor as far as the inductive kickback output go's.

Tonight i through together a quick pulse motor type setup that is close to the bedini SSG-only triggered by my FG. I was quite surprised at just how much the P/in increased,and the P/out decrease just by removing the spinning rotor with the magnets in it.

How is it that the pulsed inductor provides the energy to spin the rotor,but the efficiency of the system also increases.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVhYGiJFRFY


Brad

The title of your clip is "Proof that Magnetic Fields Increase Efficiency in Pulse Motors" and you have proved nothing of the sort.  The only thing that you have done is lead yourself down a garden path.

I am basically giving up on all of this circuit analysis stuff and I watched your clip but it's a rare thing for me to do these days.  Just like you saw some frustration expressed on the pulse measurement clip I feel the same frustration.

I must have stated hundreds of times over the years that understanding electronic circuits is all about understanding the timing analysis of the circuit.  I have said the same thing over and over about pulse motors because they are nothing more than very simple electronic circuits in action - they are a class of circuits called pulse circuits.  In pulse circuits timing is king.

Yet you barely pay any attention to the timing of the circuit which is right there on your scope display.  Instead you just look at the average reading on your scope display and then look at your multimeters and read the numbers.  You use the numbers to arrive at a bogus conclusion and ignore the timing diagram.

I did two screen caps and they are attached.  All the answers to explaining what is going on is arrived at by looking at the timing diagrams first and the numbers second.

Your conclusion is dead wrong.  See if you and your peers can figure it out.

[tinman]

The title of your clip is "Proof that Magnetic Fields Increase Efficiency in Pulse Motors" and you have proved nothing of the sort.  The only thing that you have done is lead yourself down a garden path.

I am basically giving up on all of this circuit analysis stuff and I watched your clip but it's a rare thing for me to do these days.  Just like you saw some frustration expressed on the pulse measurement clip I feel the same frustration.

I must have stated hundreds of times over the years that understanding electronic circuits is all about understanding the timing analysis of the circuit.  I have said the same thing over and over about pulse motors because they are nothing more than very simple electronic circuits in action - they are a class of circuits called pulse circuits.  In pulse circuits timing is king.

Yet you barely pay any attention to the timing of the circuit which is right there on your scope display.  Instead you just look at the average reading on your scope display and then look at your multimeters and read the numbers.  You use the numbers to arrive at a bogus conclusion and ignore the timing diagram.

I did two screen caps and they are attached.  All the answers to explaining what is going on is arrived at by looking at the timing diagrams first and the numbers second.

Your conclusion is dead wrong.  See if you and your peers can figure it out.

MH

What are you talking about???
The timing never changes,as the transistor is being triggered by my function generator at 37 hZ.
What are the two screen shots suppose to represent?. You have taken one screen shot from the middle of the scope screen,and one to the right hand side of the scope screen.

Are you sure you watched the video?-->sure dosnt seem that way.

The only thing i did,was removed the rotor with the magnets--nothing else was altered within the DUT. So how about having another go at explaining as to why removing the spinning magnets changed the efficiency so much?.

Below is two screen shots from the video. The first with the rotor and magnets in place,and the second without the rotor and magnets in play. Both scope shots now show the vertical center line of the scope screen. So now,please show us where the timing has changed,and !how! the timing could have been changed when the transistor is being triggered by the FG?.

I often wonder who is leading who up the garden path


Brad

[tinman]

Ya know MH,, this is one of the many reasons I am not so much into "electronics",, way to much math

But if "I" were to look at the two pics you posted then I would assume the upper pic has less draw and a higher return than the lower pic,, it is all about what is under the graph,, right?

So the ripple in the yellow trace while the voltage is off is part of the return, and the spike at the end of the voltage on time is also part of the return,, the very short constant (the peak of the blue trace) on time means less than the other one with a flat top,, right?? and then you are supposed to multiply the yellow trace by the blue trace for each point,, right?? something like that anyway I am guessing.

So that then would be if the step down in current for the bottom trace over the longer time at the higher voltage is more or less  for the bottom pic than the top pic,, but the return is more with than without simply due to the induction process of the rotating magnets.

I am also guessing that taking the average readings over time in the same way for both does not then reflect on the power dissipated over the time of observation,, I would of thought that if the draw were higher then the averaged reading would be higher as well,,

While these things are not all twisted up I try to follow and learn,, but they get real deep real fast and I then just blow over them,,

Webby

Do not just let this pass you by due to MH mistake.
Think about what is taking place within the DUT. The inductors magnetic field is the source of energy that drives the rotor. This !should mean that either the input should rise,or the output should fall,as some of the available energy should be used to spin the rotor. But as you can clearly see,that is not the case,the spinning rotor with magnets decreases the P/in while increasing the P/out.

MH just got it all wrong,as there is no timing adjustment in the DUT-the timing remains the same-->an apples for apples test,where the apples are bigger with the spinning rotor and magnets in play. The video and DUT is not about efficiency--it is about the increase and decrease of efficiency with and without the spinning magnets.

The data from the scope is telling us that the efficiency of the DUT without the spinning magnets is around 14.38%,and with the spinning magnet(the !only! change made to the DUT),the efficiency is around 22.59%. Our spinning magnets raised the efficiency by 8.21%.

Brad

[tinman]

Takes a big person to admit that he may have prematurely dismissed something.  It really is good to see the old Tinman at work.  Now if I could only convince you to put your damn scope, meters, the need for making comparisons between input and output, and finally the need for proving a case  away for a month or two so that we can begin brainstorming.   Of all the talented folk out there, you seem to have a pretty good idea of what you want, but, I have yet to hear you voice what it is that you want. 


It's time for voicing what we want Tinman, all of us.  From that point, we can discuss possibilities.....how we plan on accomplishing the tasks we set for ourselves.  This has to happen, without reference to measuring instruments.


Refreshing video.




Regards

Hi Erfinder.

I use my equipment to see what effect changes i make have on the DUT,and also to show those that choose to see the magic behind the permanent magnets magnetic field. It's also to show the guru's,as it gives them something to try and explain away.

Brad