Rotating Magnetic Field's and Inductors.

[EMJunkie]

MH--
    The energy pie gets eaten that is for sure. Everything grabs a piece of it.  Old Mr. Heat takes a big slice and never even says thank you.
  You raise a very good point.  Is there such a thing as "magnet energy" that can be added to the pie.  So far (going back hundreds of years) the answer has come up --no.

@Lidmotor - I must disagree. Energy is already there in the Copper Conductor. The Magnet does do work, separating the Charges in the Copper Conductor.

The trusty Electrical "Generator" has provided us with Electrical Energy for some 184 Years.

See:
Electrical Energy 101 - Faradays Law of Induction - Part 1
Electrical Energy 101 - Faradays Law of Induction - Part 2
Electrical Energy 101 - Faradays Law of Induction - Part 3

Electric Motors DC Motors and Generators - Part 1 - 1961 US Army Training Film
Electric Motors AC Motors and Generators - Part 2 - 1961 US Army Training Film
Electricity & Electronics Current 1974 US Air Force Training Film

and

Electricity & Electronics - Voltage - 1974 US Air Force Training Film
How Magnets Produce Electricity - 1954 US Navy Training Film


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[citfta]

Lidmotor:

Great pair of clips and yes indeed the effect is there also.   Six years later and you are still making clips!

Carroll:

The rotor may improve the efficiency by reducing the inefficiency, if you get what I mean.  Nonetheless, you are still expending electrical power to make the rotor turn.  Brad is not stating that, and that's the sticking point.

It's not easy to do a full energy audit for a device.  In this case we are talking about a full energy audit without the rotor, and one with the rotor.  In the pie chart for the setup with the rotor, there is a slice, no matter now small it may be, that is the slice that goes into powering the rotor and making it spin.  There is no "magnet energy" slice in the pie chart.

MileHigh

The same argument could be used for the turbo also.  Putting the turbo into the exhaust stream restricts the exhaust stream to some extent and this does indeed reduce the efficiency of the ICE.  BUT that is more than offset by the large increase in efficiency caused by the increase in fuel and air mixture that is forced into the cylinder.  So turbos are used regularly to increase the OVERALL efficiency of the ICE.

I want to make one thing clear at this point.  I started watching this thread and the others dealing with this subject with an open mind.  I did not know whether a spinning rotor would make a coil more efficient or not.  I thought the rotor might cause the efficiency to go down.  But I didn't know that so I kept an open mind and waited to see what the tests would show.  I have been way too busy with home projects to have time to set up these tests myself.  My sincere thanks to those of you that have taken the time to do the tests.  Now I know a spinning rotor with magnets is beneficial.

Carroll

[MileHigh]

Nope, there is no "charge separation."  A battery or the windings in a generator coil will raise the voltage of the electrons so that they continue on their merry way through the circuit.  It's like marbles that roll down a track and when they get to the bottom an elevator lifts them up so they can roll down the track again.  The battery or the generator will act like the elevator lifting up the marbles.  No charges are separated like in a capacitor or other static electricity example.

[MileHigh]

The same argument could be used for the turbo also.  Putting the turbo into the exhaust stream restricts the exhaust stream to some extent and this does indeed reduce the efficiency of the ICE.  BUT that is more than offset by the large increase in efficiency caused by the increase in fuel and air mixture that is forced into the cylinder.  So turbos are used regularly to increase the OVERALL efficiency of the ICE.

I want to make one thing clear at this point.  I started watching this thread and the others dealing with this subject with an open mind.  I did not know whether a spinning rotor would make a coil more efficient or not.  I thought the rotor might cause the efficiency to go down.  But I didn't know that so I kept an open mind and waited to see what the tests would show.  I have been way too busy with home projects to have time to set up these tests myself.  My sincere thanks to those of you that have taken the time to do the tests.  Now I know a spinning rotor with magnets is beneficial.

Carroll

Yes the turbo taps into the usable and untapped power available in the exhaust gasses.

The question remains:  If you had the choice between a spinning rotor with magnets to reduce power consumption and simply reducing the drive voltage to reduce power consumption which one would you choose?

I will leave it at that and we will see what Brad has to say.  I like the fact that Brad has a real power-out to power-in metric to work with.  If you don't have a tangible application or metric it all becomes a variation on angels dancing on the head of a pin.

MileHigh

[NoBull]

For example, at 0.25 Tau the ratio is 6:1 for energy stored vs. energy dissipated when energizing the coil which translates into 85.7% efficiency in energizing the coil.

How did you get from 6:1 ratio to 85.7% efficiency?

Also, what happens to efficiency when I allow the current in the coil to stabilize?  I think they call it the V/R limit.
Finally, how can I see on the scope that I am close to this limit?