MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[picowatt]

I was asking MH for his answer.

I have ask a number of times now,where is the loss?--why is the negative feedback less than that that caused the negative feedback?
So i have ask for clarification  a number of times now,and have received no answer.
I will take it that you have misses !on a number of occasions! that i have indeed requested clarification.

So is your issue ONLY with regard to inductors having no resistance, or do you not agree with or understand the concept of an inductor's CEMF as the feedback mechanism that limits the current flow's rate of change with regard to ANY inductor?

PW

[tinman]

So is your issue ONLY with regard to inductors having no resistance, or do you not agree with or understand the concept of an inductor's CEMF as the feedback mechanism that limits the current flow's rate of change with regard to ANY inductor?

PW

OK,well this seems so hard to make any clearer.
If the CEMF voltage is the same as the EMFs voltage,then where is the loss that allows current to flow,when there is no potential difference between the inductor and source.

Here is the thing. If the CEMF voltage is the same as the V/in,then you have just converted all(100%) of the applied EMFs induced current into CEMF. We now have your two batteries hooked in parallel that have the same voltage--but current still flows. You talk about negative feed back,and this feed back is of the same value,but current still flows--so where is the loss on the negative side(the CEMF side) that allows current to flow with no potential difference.
This is about the fifth or sixth time i have asked,and never get an answer.

From all my test,the CEMF is lower than the EMF by over 1/2 a volt,when 12 volts is applied to that inductor. I am yet to see anyone here making claims that the CEMF is equal to the EMF,actually show it to be the same--my results show it is not,and so current can flow.

Blue is voltage across inductor,yellow is supply voltage.


Brad

[picowatt]

OK,well this seems so hard to make any clearer.

It would make it much clearer if you would just answer my question as posed.  As in when I asked if your issue was only with regard to zero R inductors or all inductors...

If the CEMF voltage is the same as the EMFs voltage,then where is the loss that allows current to flow,when there is no potential difference between the inductor and source.

Here is the thing. If the CEMF voltage is the same as the V/in,then you have just converted all(100%) of the applied EMFs induced current into CEMF.

This is not correct.  CEMF is only generated by a changing magnetic field and it is only the portion of that changing magnetic field that cuts the conductor at right angles that induces a voltage back into the conductor. 

We now have your two batteries hooked in parallel that have the same voltage--but current still flows. You talk about negative feed back,and this feed back is of the same value,but current still flows--so where is the loss on the negative side(the CEMF side) that allows current to flow with no potential difference.

This is about the fifth or sixth time i have asked,and never get an answer.

Again, in order to help you understand this, I have asked if your issue regarding this is only with regard to zero R inductors, or if it is more so that you are having an issue understanding the CEMF's regulating effect with regard to all inductors.

From all my test,the CEMF is lower than the EMF by over 1/2 a volt,when 12 volts is applied to that inductor. I am yet to see anyone here making claims that the CEMF is equal to the EMF,actually show it to be the same--my results show it is not,and so current can flow.

Blue is voltage across inductor,yellow is supply voltage.

You're going to have to provide more info for me to make any sense of your scope shot.

If you are connecting an inductor directly across a Vsupply, how can the supply voltage and the voltage measured across the inductor not be equal?  A schematic or description of your test set up would be helpful...

PW

[3Kelvin]

The magnitude of Vsourse and Vinduced are the same.
But Vsource is a static source, Vind is a dynamic source.
For my assumption, this is the unsymmetrical between the both magnitudes.
The difference is how to get the magnitude. Maybe is is the time between first and second action.

With the equation I(t) = (Us / L) *t we cant describe the difference.
0.8 A/s = 4V/5Henry. For this equation we get at t=0 no difference,
so that Vs = Vi. But we also know that without a changing current 0.8A/s we wont get the -4V.

So Vs is not equal Vi, but the Magnitude (Skalar) is equal.

L+P 3K

[partzman]

Consider two voltage sources connected in parallel.  One Vsource represents the applied EMF, the other Vsource represents the inductor's generated CEMF.  The first Vsource, representing EMF, is set to output +4 volts.

What voltage must the second Vsource be set to output in order for their to be no current flow?

PW

Even though I said I would not post until I could show evidence contrary to your beliefs, I will play along.

The second Vsource or Cemf must be +4v of course.  And the point is .......?

pm

Edit: PW or anybody, please give an equivalent circuit or model of the Emf/Cemf interaction in a single inductor driven from an Emf source. Or a math derivation would be OK but not just the same repeat of Emf = Cemf please.