MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[MileHigh]

<<< Im sorry MH,but that dose not work either,as the V has no slope ,due to that fact that the voltage is ideal. >>>

There is no slope associated with the voltage so I don't know what you are talking about.   Forget the Tau business for now, it's not relevant.

Read again, Poynt stated that his sim did not run right the first time and when he tweaked the R value it ran as expected and he is in agreement with me now.

The best thing you could do for yourself is follow-though and answer the complete question and demonstrate competence in the subject matter.  You have been given a very generous start, now it's up to you and your peers to follow through.  You still have a long way to go.

The question still has not been answered....

[Magneticitist]

I will repeat to you, the circuit is only "imaginary" if you have a bad attitude and refuse to open up your mind and learn something new and you refuse to apply your knowledge.  I will repeat to you, that there is almost no difference between an inductor with zero ohms resistance and an inductor with 0.001 ohms resistance and I just proved it to you and Brad in my previous posting where I did the "real" calculation.

If you can't understand how closely an ideal inductor matches a real inductor and how much can be learned from trying to understand how an ideal inductor works then read over the thread again.  I am not here to argue that anymore.

<<<  if we were to let's say, graph out the joule thiefs inductor voltage to current ratio over time until
we can see how many seconds it takes to become what we can consider fully charged  >>>

The quoted sentence above does not really make any sense and that is the whole point of this exercise.  Understand how an inductor works so you can talk about using one sensibly and also understand how a Joule Thief works and then build better Joule Thieves.

Yes there are different ways of using inductors in circuits.  A good start is right here.  This example applies directly to the energizing phase of a Joule Thief.  If you understand the basics then moving to regular inductors is easier.  And like I told you in many circuits real inductors for all practical intents and purposes act exactly like ideal inductors.

"Spiteful cerebral-measuring" is you just being defensive because you are in the realm of real electronics here, not the usual throwing around of meaningless catch phrases.

The best thing you could do for yourself is have the same spark as Brad and follow it through and learn something real and substantial about electronics.  I will remind you, you read the question and you did not have the slightest idea what to do.  I am hoping that you and Brad arrive at a successful conclusion to this debate.

I am not going to touch any Joule Thief thread, sorry.

why do you always do that? is this sentence REALLY that hard for you to understand?
"<<<  if we were to let's say, graph out the joule thiefs inductor voltage to current ratio over time until we can see how many seconds it takes to become what we can consider fully charged  >>>"

is that really such a laymans way of stating it that you simply refuse to attempt comprehending it?

What are we doing in this exercise? Are we not basically graphing an inductor charging according to a time constant? (which in this case doesn't exist) you just happen to use a 5H inductor, nowhere near what the JT inductor is in Brads circuit, and a 0 resistance which has caused a conundrum you are still not understanding the nature of. And yet and still you are claiming to know how an inductor with 0 resistance will act.

I'm literally stating what we just did in practice by analyzing this exercise, and am comparing it to how we can use this same circuit theory analysis to gain an understanding about what is going on
with the joule thief circuit you no longer wish to shed light on.

I'm not going to keep telling you that I'm not attacking your reasoning for using such theoretical models.. It's common practice for even the greenest of EE students. I keep telling you it's not helping us understand the confusion with Brads circuit. You could have easily generated a different question that was more tailored to that specific circuit if you had some revelation you wished to portray in lesson form.

[tinman]

Below i have added the correct voltage and current traces as would be seen using an ideal voltage,and an ideal inductor.

You will note that it is also the same as what Poynt's sim showed during his 100 second run time.


Brad

P.S
I have incorrectly worded current trace !across! inductor,when it should be current through inductor-as im sure you are well aware of.

[MileHigh]

I have filled in the blanks in your diagram,and also noted that there will be no voltage curve when the voltage is ideal,and set at 4 volts for 3 seconds-as per your original question.

I am pretty sure Poynt has not yet finished looking into this,and i think you will find that i am correct when i say that your ideal voltage of 4 volts across the ideal inductor for the first 3 seconds from T=0 ,remains 4 volts,as an ideal voltage dose not change in value over time-regardless of the load,and so there is no such voltage curve as you have depicted in your diagram .

Brad

Read my posting again and understand it, I solved for R=0.001 ohm so I was not discussing an ideal inductor there.

[MileHigh]

Magneticitist:

Sorry for being picky but I am not going to discuss Joule Thieves on this thread.  For the main coil in a Joule Thief, there is no such thing as a "inductor voltage to current ratio" and I am making a point to you about communicating effectively.  How can you expect to talk shop about Joule Thieves if the person you are talking to is a beginner that would not have a clue what you are saying when you say "inductor voltage to current ratio" which itself doesn't really make sense.  I won't go after you anymore about this but now you are fully aware.

Note, this thread is all about the energizing of an inductor.  My advice to you is to forget about Joule Thieves on this thread and focus on trying to answer the question and understand what is going on.

MileHigh