MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[MileHigh]

Which leads back to one of tinmans statements that : 'the emf must be greater than the cemf for current to flow', with my added caveat - 'in a real inductor.'
What will happen in an 'ideal' inductor is great debating material, however, almost all explanations could be considered equally valid simply because the ideal doesn't exist (except possibly - inductors made with superconductors?) and therefore any hypothesis relating to it is (currently) unfalsifiable. But 'ideal' hypothesis do give the brain matter something to chew on.

Cheers

This is where switching over to a mechanical analogy can be so useful sometimes.

What is a real shopping cart?

The answer is that it is a shopping cart with friction in the wheel bearings.

What is a close approximation to an ideal shopping cart?

The answer is that you remove the wheels and you replace them with a very flat surface.  The new shopping cart now sits on a giant "air table" just like you have for an air hockey game.  In other words, the shopping cart is now floating frictionlessly on a cushion of air, just like a hovercraft.

So the question is this:  Is it hard to imagine how the "ideal" shopping cart will respond when you push on it?

It's is very wrong to state that "we don't know what would happen if you have an ideal coil."  Every time you use an equation for a coil to solve a problem about a circuit, it assumes an ideal coil.  We know exactly how an ideal coil will respond.  To attach some kind of attribute of "mysticism" to an ideal coil is a major mistake.  It's just like some people rejected the idea that a voltage source could be variable in time.

Again, how does an ideal coil respond to a voltage stimulus?

Current(t) = (1/Inductance) * integral [Voltage(t)] dt

That is the real answer, we know this for certain.  Any ideas that "we don't know what would happen with a true ideal coil because we can't make one" are false.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Indeed--what will happen?

The question deserved a better look than it go.
Instead of this being a thread to discuss the question as presented,the thread turned into a !!MH must be correct!! thread.

As you can read in my posting to Hoptoad, it's a big mistake to believe that how a true ideal inductor will respond needs to be investigated further.

It's not a question of me being correct.  I am just stating what you will find in any book on electronics or physics.  So in effect, you are questioning "the system."  More often than not, the system is right, and this is one of those times.

And you can't forget the fact that when people get educated in these matters, they still go through a step by step process where they investigate and test all of these things on the bench so they can see it for themselves in real life.  These are not "eggheads in the sky" concepts, these are things that are real and tangible that people test and observe for themselves, as well as learning it in the classroom.

[poynt99]

Poynt
please read here

Loner
Quote

I will not "Discuss" this and will probably not receive any reply as I have requested to Stephan that both my accounts and all posts be deleted, so this may not even get posted


Removing posts takes time !!

I read that, yes.

I will be very surprised if Stefan deletes his posts.

[minnie]

   What was up with the Loner? He suggested quantum and I thought
  that was a good idea..
     I've enjoyed the analysis of the statement and feel I've learned
  something.
         John.

[ramset]

I read that, yes.

I will be very surprised if Stefan deletes his posts.

Poynt
Stefan has always been polite and considerate of members requests ,not certain if he is Bound By Laws or his own moral standards.
But
yes he will delete them if asked  By Loner
I have seen it happen many times before.
It takes him some time [apparently time consuming]