Free Energy from Electromagnetic Wave Fields

[partzman]

Well, it depends on what do you want to achieve. If you just want to fiddle with LtSpice, then that is fine, you can say that it shows the correct results for your setup. But, if you want to build a model that is analogous to the wave machine of the video (which we do want in this case), then your setup is not correct.

What I would like to achieve is to resolve the differences between the mechanical wave machine and the sim with the lossless Tline.  I think I may understand the main difference and will explain below.

How do I know that? Simple clear logic: does the wave impulse ever turn negative on the video around 3:45? Does your circuit behave the same way?

IMO, no to the negative going impulse and yes the sim behaves the same.

Forget about your Vin signal generator. Here we are interested only in the part of the circuit that models wave propagation observed in the video, which is the transmission line, because EM waves exist only in that component in the Spice model. Therefore, the input to the transmission line Vin should be measured where you measure Vr, and the output Vout should be measured at the other end of the transmission line on top terminal of R1. Please, measure these two points and change your circuit to behave the same way as the wave machine does in the video. I will reply to the rest of your last post when we get to that point in this problem solving exercise, and then we can progress and untangle the rest of the "mystery".

OK, "Delay Line2" below shows the measurement points as you requested above.  At the 2.5us point in time we see the beginning of wave superposition resulting in a half sine VoHi that is 2x the original pulse input at Vr.

In regards to changing this sim to match the wave machine waveforms, I consider it impossible.  The lossless Tline model used is included in LtSpice, has an infinite number of elements, and the internals are not available to modify as least as far as I can tell.  Therefore, all that can be done is to match the Tline impedance, mis-match the impedance, open load, or shorted load.  IMO, none of these combos will match the wave machine wave forms.  However, I would be most willing to learn how this might be done.

One simulation that does resemble the wave machine more closely is the "Lossy Delay Line" seen below modeled with a limited number of elements.  There is one important key factor missing in this sim and that is the coupling factors between the inductive elements.  The definition list of all K factors needed would be quite lengthy and if they are not accurately representing a real device, the internally generated math matrix will not be correct and the sim will not converge or complete. 

So, what we see is a somewhat closer resemblance to the wave machine but we have ringing with negative transitions due to the missing couplings.  The wave machine rods are coupled with the center wire torsional twist which would be analogous to the K factors of the inductors.

Therefore my current understanding is that the differences lie in the losses between the the sim and the wave machine but I'm certainly open for any criticism and/or correction.

pm

Edit: The lossy sim has an ideal switch replacing the input diode.

[ZL]

How do I know that? Simple clear logic: does the wave impulse ever turn negative on the video around 3:45? Does your circuit behave the same way?

IMO, no to the negative going impulse and yes the sim behaves the same.

The first part of your answer is correct: the impulse never turns negative on the wave machine.
But your answer to the second question is incorrect, and I wonder how is it possible that you are unable to see this. Let me quote your claims again:

In regards to the measuring points used in the sim, I could have shown the voltage at the lower output terminal of the Tline and it would have been seen as an inverted 2x version of the input.  OTOH, if the lower output terminal was grounded, then the upper output terminal would have shown a 2x Vin non-inverted waveform. IMO, the sim shows correct results.

Let us go step by step and examine all 3 options you have suggested. The first is your original setup without any modification, but measuring the output voltage (which is apparently zero), see partzman0.png below.

As you can see the output voltage Vout=0V (the blue trace) and it is really 0, not just hidden behind the green trace. If you remove the trace Vin from the diagram you can see this clearly. This setup does not model the behavior of the wave machine correctly, because there we have seen that the output sees a +2Vin when the wave arrives to the end, which in this case supposed to happen at 2.5us mark (but it does not happen in this circuit).

Your second suggestion was to measure Vout at the lower terminal of the transmission line, which produces the following result, see partzman0a.png below.

Here a negative 2xVin is present at the Vout, which again contradicts the wave machine behavior, because in the video there is no negative pulse around 3:45.

Your third suggestion was to ground the lower output terminal, which will look like this, partzman0b.png below.

The output voltage is again zero at all times (not hidden in any way). I hope that by now you can see that none of these suggestions model the behavior of the wave machine accurately.

Your answers: "IMO, the sim shows correct results" and "...yes the sim behaves the same" are wrong. What I would like to figure out is why you were unable to see this? How do you think? What kind of logic do you use to not see such obvious and trivial facts? I am not trying to pick on you here, just want to figure out the cause of faulty thinking and how to fix it. Because, many other people on this forum use similar faulty logic. I will not be around all the time to answer questions and fix errors, and others who know correct answers may not be willing to answer your questions when you need it.

Therefore instead of simply giving the complete answers to your questions right away, it is much more profitable for you if you learn to use simple clear logic, and abandon confused complicated logic. That is the only way you can hope to succeed in this field of research. Knowing the right method of finding solutions and answers is more important and more valuable than being able to regurgitate the correct answer to a specific question that you have heard from someone else. Therefore my primary aim with these posts is to highlight faulty logic and its consequences, and demonstrate simple clear logic that will let you find correct answers to your questions on your own.

In regards to changing this sim to match the wave machine waveforms, I consider it impossible...

I did not ask for exact match of wave form, but only approximately analogous behavior, which was not achieved by your first 3 circuit suggestions. Your last delay line2.png with the extra switch and additional voltage source does that. But there is no need for over complicating the circuit when it can be achieved with a tiny simple modification, by adding a piece of wire to your original circuit like this, partzman1.png below.

As you can see, now this behaves like the wave machine, there is no negative pulse anywhere, and the output is not constantly zero either, but a 2xVin shows up at the expected time of 2.5us.

Let's not get into the lossy delay line now, because that unnecessarily complicates things, while we have to explain and understand much simpler phenomena first.

Right, so now we have resolved the first problem, namely to set up a circuit that properly models the behavior of the wave machine. Now let us focus on the next problem, which you have already started to pick apart, but concluded to be impossible. Namely, the primary purpose of the wave machine is to allow us to see into the transmission line and see the wave at different locations as it propagates in space. Only inside the transmission line can we observe the real amplitude and shape of the wave, not at the input and output. We can explain the reason for that later. Let us focus now on the goal to measure the wave amplitude inside the transmission line of your circuit. You have already said something like you think this is impossible.

But, is it really impossible? I say it is possible with some modifications, and you will be able to measure the amplitude and see the shape of the wave inside the transmission line at any point along its length not only at the input and output.

Now please use simple clear logic, and add a bit of "out of box" type of inventive thinking. If you don't find the solution in a day or two, then I will show you, and then we can proceed further to the next "mystery".

[partzman]

ZL,

Rather than go thru your last post in detail (which I will do if necessary) I will try to clear up the confusion with brief answers. 

First in answering your question about the wave machine having negative impulses I answered "no" which you found correct.  Your next question "does your circuit behave the same way?" I answered "yes" because it too has no negative going impulses with no load.  I was not intending to say that the sim performed like the wave machine. 

My point all along is that my efforts of doing a simulation of an ideal Tline does not produce the same basic operation of the wave machine in regards to wave amplitudes.  It's that simple, no more, no less.

I would welcome seeing a sim using an ideal Tline that has the likeness of the captured video frames I previously posted.

pm

[ZL]

Your next question "does your circuit behave the same way?" I answered "yes" because it too has no negative going impulses with no load. 

This is again a false statement, a sign of confused complicated thinking. Your first suggestion for an alternative point where to measure the impulse was this:

In regards to the measuring points used in the sim, I could have shown the voltage at the lower output terminal of the Tline and it would have been seen as an inverted 2x version of the input.

If you look at partzman0a.png which shows this setup, you will see that there IS a negative impulse at the output of the T-Line, while there is no negative impulse at the output of the wave machine. This is the fault in the thinking that needs to be corrected, because you are either unable or unwilling to recognize and/or acknowledge such simple and obvious facts. The other 2 versions did not even have any output signal, therefore they are no better than the partzman0a.png.

I would welcome seeing a sim using an ideal Tline that has the likeness of the captured video frames I previously posted.

You are expecting something impossible from LtSpice. The wave machine makes it possible for you to see the complete inside space within the transmission line at the same time. Which means, that if there were more pulses, then you could see them all at the same time as they propagate in space along the line.

However, Lt spice does not display diagrams where the x axis could be a spatial dimension, like the length x along the transmission line. Now take this claim with a pinch of salt, because I am not an experienced LtSpice user (installed it for the first time few days ago to check out your circuit). It might still turn out, that some expert users can display such a spatial graph in LtSpice, and in that case you could indeed see an exactly analogous image of spatial propagation on your diagram that you see in the video.

For now let's use simple clear thinking and achieve the realistic and easily achievable aim to see the wave amplitude and form at a single point inside the transmission line in time domain (meaning: x axis displays time, and not a spatial coordinate). If you can peek inside the T-line at a single point, then you can do the same at several points as well, either simultaneously, or one after the other. Like, look into the middle of the T-line first, then move your point of peek hole, and watch the signal at say ¼ T-line distance from the input. You can do this, just break the problem down into small parts, and the solution should occur to you.

[partzman]

This is again a false statement, a sign of confused complicated thinking. Your first suggestion for an alternative point where to measure the impulse was this:

If you look at partzman0a.png which shows this setup, you will see that there IS a negative impulse at the output of the T-Line, while there is no negative impulse at the output of the wave machine. This is the fault in the thinking that needs to be corrected, because you are either unable or unwilling to recognize and/or acknowledge such simple and obvious facts. The other 2 versions did not even have any output signal, therefore they are no better than the partzman0a.png.

You are expecting something impossible from LtSpice. The wave machine makes it possible for you to see the complete inside space within the transmission line at the same time. Which means, that if there were more pulses, then you could see them all at the same time as they propagate in space along the line.

However, Lt spice does not display diagrams where the x axis could be a spatial dimension, like the length x along the transmission line. Now take this claim with a pinch of salt, because I am not an experienced LtSpice user (installed it for the first time few days ago to check out your circuit). It might still turn out, that some expert users can display such a spatial graph in LtSpice, and in that case you could indeed see an exactly analogous image of spatial propagation on your diagram that you see in the video.

For now let's use simple clear thinking and achieve the realistic and easily achievable aim to see the wave amplitude and form at a single point inside the transmission line in time domain (meaning: x axis displays time, and not a spatial coordinate). If you can peek inside the T-line at a single point, then you can do the same at several points as well, either simultaneously, or one after the other. Like, look into the middle of the T-line first, then move your point of peek hole, and watch the signal at say ¼ T-line distance from the input. You can do this, just break the problem down into small parts, and the solution should occur to you.

Respectively ZL, are you serious?  If a measurement is taken at the other end of the grounded input on the Tline, of course you will find a negative going pulse as compared to the applied pulse. But this is like looking at the outside of the rods on the wave machine at the starting pulse and then moving around to the back side of the table to look at the inside of the rods when the output pulse arrives!

We don't need to look "inside" the Tline to analyze the results we see at the ends.  The sims I've provided as well as the ones you have provided utilizing the lossless Tline model do not agree with the wave machine.  There is NO evidence of wave superposition at the output of the un-loaded wave machine as compared to the un-loaded simulation.  If there is, then please point out what I'm missing!

pm