Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious

[Magluvin]

There is a video on youtube somewhere,that shows the meter on the house spinning backwards when the guy uses his arc welder.
Wonder if he is saving money while welding?.


Brad

Hmm. I wonder if the spinning disk actually would turn the numbers back. Like in a car, the mile indicators cant simply be spun backwards to reduce the appearance of low mileage. Like if that were so that the welder was making the disk spin in the opposite direction, I think that would be a known issue. Maybe if the disk spins backwards the numbers still go forward in situations like this?

[Farmhand]

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 07, 2016, 05:28:28 PM
Are you missing the point?  The power "that you pay for" is clearly the power that comes from the mains. Does anyone want to argue otherwise?

So what does that make the statements where "570 %" or "infinite COP" is being claimed in order to sell a DVD?

There is a video on youtube somewhere,that shows the meter on the house spinning backwards when the guy uses his arc welder.
Wonder if he is saving money while welding?.


Brad

Brad do you actually believe the welding machine to be exhibiting OU in that instance ? I think not, I think even though the power meter disk is caused to spin backwards (for some reason) real power is still being consumed by the welding machine.

Which is a point I also made in the past, if a device is causing a huge reactive power content on the AC grid lines then the device is wasting power outside the "black box" so to speak, not correct in my view.

A killa watt meter should be used at the Grid power wall outlet so as to show what the device is causing to happen with the AC lines as far as reactive power goes. If you we being penalised for bad PF then it would cost you. If not being penalised for bad PF then it is costing the power company. I mean if you had to provide several 1000's of VA (without the grid) just so you could run a device with a few watts output you would soon see the losses.

eg. killa watt meter reads 2000 VA but only 20 watts real power delivered, this means a power supply over 2000VA is needed to run a device using only 20 watts, that is very bad design. The power supply losses are related to 2000 VA or more not 20 watts.

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[tinman]

Brad do you actually believe the welding machine to be exhibiting OU in that instance ? I think not, I think even though the power meter disk is caused to spin backwards (for some reason) real power is still being consumed by the welding machine.

Which is a point I also made in the past, if a device is causing a huge reactive power content on the AC grid lines then the device is wasting power outside the "black box" so to speak, not correct in my view.

A killa watt meter should be used at the Grid power wall outlet so as to show what the device is causing to happen with the AC lines as far as reactive power goes. If you we being penalised for bad PF then it would cost you. If not being penalised for bad PF then it is costing the power company. I mean if you had to provide several 1000's of VA (without the grid) just so you could run a device with a few watts output you would soon see the losses.

eg. killa watt meter reads 2000 VA but only 20 watts real power delivered, this means a power supply over 2000VA is needed to run a device using only 20 watts, that is very bad design. The power supply losses are related to 2000 VA or more not 20 watts.

..

No,not saying it is OU.
What i am saying is,it is not costing the guy a cent while he is using his arc welder. In fact,he would be saving money,as his meter is going backwards.

Do you know of anyone that has actually measured the power consumption of your everyday arc welder?__can you imagine what those magnetic fields within the transformer must be like when the arc is taking place.

And while on this subject--》why,when the polarity on the output of the welder is swapped,will the welding rod glow red hot,when it is an AC machine?
When welding stainless,you must swap the work lead and ground over,or the welding rod just glows orange hot,and turns into a molten mess. But why?--it is an AC  output,and so it should have no polarity.
Then when you switch back to mild steel rods,you once again have to switch the output polarity back,or the same thing happens to the mild steel rods.
Im sure you have come across this FarmHand.


Brad

[lancaIV]

From DC motor to pulsed DC motor and from DC transformer to pulsed DC transformer ,the special "pulse" effect :

                                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current


If I have a fixed current can I get "Inrush Voltage" ?
Hybrid ? Inrush Voltage X Inrush current ?
1 Hertz = 2 Pulses


Here an "AC-grid Infeeder" https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=12&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900104&CC=DE&NR=3821856A1&KC=A1


http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3821856&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.1&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en

probably also usefull for an "inhouse AC-grid circuit".

[Farmhand]

No,not saying it is OU.
What i am saying is,it is not costing the guy a cent while he is using his arc welder. In fact,he would be saving money,as his meter is going backwards.

Do you know of anyone that has actually measured the power consumption of your everyday arc welder?__can you imagine what those magnetic fields within the transformer must be like when the arc is taking place.

And while on this subject--》why,when the polarity on the output of the welder is swapped,will the welding rod glow red hot,when it is an AC machine?
When welding stainless,you must swap the work lead and ground over,or the welding rod just glows orange hot,and turns into a molten mess. But why?--it is an AC  output,and so it should have no polarity.
Then when you switch back to mild steel rods,you once again have to switch the output polarity back,or the same thing happens to the mild steel rods.
Im sure you have come across this FarmHand.


Brad

No I can't explain that issue Brad, I've never had occasion to use stainless rods that I can recall, I've always used MIG or TIG to weld stainless steel and aluminium as far as I can recall. I can recall Arc-Drift problems when using DC welding machines which requires coiling a DC lead around or on the job to stop it, It's a magnetic effect. Maybe your polarity issue is a nuance of that particular machine.

Did you google it ? Might get an explanation that way. Interesting issue.

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